Wolf stat ceiling increase (per generation)

Wolf stat ceiling increase (per generation)
Posted 2023-05-19 17:55:36 (edited) #1018077 Let's be honest. Right now there's a problem with generations in Wolvden. Everyone wants low generational wolves with high stat because the system is brutally punishing low gen wolves. For a game about breeding and building a pack, it's not so swell when the system praises bringing in New Befriended Wolves instead of cherishing the familiar wolves you have. In fact, it's detrimental to the game's purpose. After all, this is supposed to be a game focused on building up stats and genetics, right? So, how do we fix this? One option, out of many suggested in this forum, would be to increase the stats of wolves as they excel through the generations. This would provide a challenge towards stat breeders, as it would be ideal to avoid inbreeding as their generations become more extensive (maybe IBing removes the stat gain). Along with this, it gives long-time players the ability to grow their pack and become attached to it, rather than throwing away higher gen wolves. Ideally, this would also fix some current issues with the market on Wolvden. Why does this come up NOW? Recently, which you can read about here, the highest litter ever was born to a combined total of 5300+ stats. Previously, the highest was 5100+ stats. Even so, the pup within the 5300 litter was only one stat higher than the previous highest pup ever born. Needless to say, this is not okay when there is a 200 stat difference between the two. While the overall stat ceiling is not going to be addressed here, it can be in the other thread. What now? Well, needless to say, things need to change. Players who have worked their butt off are not feeling rewarded for their efforts. Perhaps, if this was implemented, it may assist with that problem. If you would, please consider this. Any other ideas, thoughts, comments, and criticisms are welcomed below. Thank you.	Orion #6210

Posted 2023-05-19 17:55:36 (edited)

#1018077

Let's be honest.

Right now there's a problem with generations in Wolvden. Everyone wants low generational wolves with high stat because the system is brutally punishing low gen wolves. For a game about breeding and building a pack, it's not so swell when the system praises bringing in New Befriended Wolves instead of cherishing the familiar wolves you have. In fact, it's detrimental to the game's purpose. After all, this is supposed to be a game focused on building up stats and genetics, right?

So, how do we fix this?

One option, out of many suggested in this forum, would be to increase the stats of wolves as they excel through the generations. This would provide a challenge towards stat breeders, as it would be ideal to *avoid* inbreeding as their generations become more extensive (maybe IBing removes the stat gain). Along with this, it gives long-time players the ability to grow their pack and become attached to it, rather than throwing away higher gen wolves. Ideally, this would also fix some current issues with the market on Wolvden.

Why does this come up NOW?

Recently, which you can read about here, the highest litter *ever* was born to a combined total of 5300+ stats. Previously, the highest was 5100+ stats. Even so, the pup within the 5300 litter was only *one stat higher* than the previous highest pup ever born. Needless to say, this is not okay when there is a 200 stat difference between the two. While the overall stat ceiling is not going to be addressed here, it can be in the other thread.

What now?

Well, needless to say, things need to change. Players who have worked their butt off are not feeling rewarded for their efforts. Perhaps, if this was implemented, it may assist with that problem. If you would, please consider this.

Any other ideas, thoughts, comments, and criticisms are welcomed below.

Thank you.

Orion
#6210

Posted 2023-05-19 18:25:55

#1018087

The stat ~~ceiling~~ brick wall has been a point of contention to stat breeders pretty much ever since we hit it and realized it existed. Pretty much anything that would ease the cap or give a stat boost would be a welcome change in my mind, and I think this is a fantastic idea. Now that Wolvden officially counts the generations as well, it is capable of being implemented much more easily than when the generation of a wolf wasn't officially recognized.

We've had recent very successful instances where people take a lucky chased G1 (or sometimes G2s) and make leaderboard runs with them and then (predictably) crash and burn out hard when their kids are but a fraction of their sires. Those have been some of the most prolific and successful studs. But people are more hesitant to invest in their beloved lineage they can trace back to their original starter wolf, because (in general) anything higher than gen 3 or 4 does not sell as well on the market and is considered lesser value.

I sold a NBW Blueschist I was lucky enough to befriend for 200 GC, but I can barely sell gen 3 Blueschists for 15 GC (a lot of them starve and run away because I can't take care of them all, just look at the state of my sales den if you need proof). This discrepancy is wild.

I think it would be really fun to incentivize long generations and give other wolves a chance to shine, or give reasons for people to actually breed their wolves and keep them, instead of a now-common occurrence of mass breeding, raising and chasing them, and buying back one that made it through and starting all over ad infinitum.

People can still do that of course, this change wouldn't negate that capability. But it would give stat breeders something to look forward to and help the market for low-value wolves, which we have been clamoring for since as long as I can remember.

Zea
#27549

Posted 2023-05-20 02:43:46

#1018213

Instead of breeding is currently very demoralizing.
Alone what has happened now it the leaderboard wolves, is an absolute joke unfortunately.
So much money and time investment for virtually nothing. I think just the "Powerplayer" will take the fun in the long run. Therefore, you get for his efforts basically "nothing".
Into thi bug report is more written link

Rhallwyn
#29990

Posted 2023-05-20 03:49:54 (edited)

#1018218

Its also hugely detrimental about these low gen wolves and new marks. If someone is breeding for marks, once they hit 3 gen they basically have to restart or chase and hope they can find the person who befriends it.

I tried breeding for Black Opossum Slot 4 and Black Points Slot 7 for a while, but could not sell them once they hit gen 3. Why make the effort, why bother? Special markings start losing value or disappear because of this.

The Low Gen craze is stagnating the game, but because it takes a huge amount of grove items to build an NBWs stats, I dont think the developers will do anything, they are making money off of it in my point of view.

I refuse to pour money into stats because of the heritage issues as well as the stat block. Once this lead dies, Im not even sure what I will breed for or even bother with.

Marks? Why? I'll end up right back where I was with Black Points and Black Opossum.

Stats? Why? Unless I spend an ungodly amount (in this inflated brutal economy) theres really no reason because once an NBW hits about 2000 points, hes getting older and the stat block starts affecting his pups. Not to mention the financial drain and burnout suffered by the player.

Im all for supporting the Devs, but in turn they also have to support the players and LISTEN and ACT.

Ive basically lost interest and only log in during the Lunar event because I love the art and bases/markings.

So yeah. It needs to be fixed.

Mustang 🐎
#3314

Posted 2023-05-20 04:24:45 (edited)

#1018222

Supported. It is really weird that it does this; it's not even a taper, it's just a hard cutoff.

A bit of a semi-unrelated (but still related enough) rant,

The focus on generations in this game (and Lioden) is getting completely out of control, and honestly it seems like people only really "care" because they don't want to bother to check who the wolf/lion's family is before breeding it. I'm even more shocked to learn that apparently you guys are saying G3 is too "long" in this game. Genuinely what the fuck?

Honestly though, back to stats, I almost think this is a no-win situation. I wouldn't be shocked if people eventually just started doing what they do on Lioden where even if your high stat king is clean, no inbreeding, could literally be G2... they'll just arbitrarily slap it with the "dirty" label and treat it and your hard work as worthless... because it has too many cubs. Lovely. Though this game does seem to specifically use "NIB" rather than "dirty" more often, but I still could absolutely see what I said taking place eventually.

I have the 2nd highest stat, non-inbred (clean) Ferus stud on Lioden with tons of breed-only traits and it seems like no one cares because his heritage is "too long" now, even though Ferus kings with stats that high are pretty much nonexistent. There's like three including mine. Beggars really can be choosers I guess. They want low generation AND high stats but also don't want to put a fraction of the work in themselves.

I started working on him because I wanted to start my own, new stat line. It's really disheartening that this is now what it's become and you need to be G2 or G3 or it's pointless.

Thalath
#2575

Posted 2023-05-21 06:08:59

#1018740

I posted in the other thread about this, but huuuuge support here.

Also noted in the other thread that I'd been gone for a year and only recently came back. Been playing for a month, watching the market, and it truly is dire. The generation crunch is so intense now that the game has come down to an endless loop of repetition to stay viable, and I've seen more than a few G2 T3s selling for the kinds of prices I was asking after for my fully trained G5 T2 hunters.

Like-- at this point, the most enjoyment I (legitimately and unironically) get out of the game is playing Sparkle Dog Space Cadets Dress-Up Hour with the Lunar stuff, and just generally collecting trophies on the off-chance another pretty base drops that people can grind for~~let it be Canadian Goose next time pls pls pls~~

DogBlud
#24586

Posted 2023-05-22 02:15:48

#1019143

Adding an actual mechanic to penalize inbreeding would make it so that any stat gains from generational breeding are null would make me fully support this. I think another thing to consider is that making pups a bit more precious and rewarding to see grow to adulthood rather than something you continually have to get rid of would help this concept a lot if it were made into a feature, if pups were more susceptible to mortality it'd make higher gen wolves with nice stats/markings more impressive as well as reduce the amount of ridiculously nice low gen pups immediately available

hans
#120630

Posted 2023-06-05 10:58:07 (edited)

#1025458

I'm generally not very keen of how stats are inherited. When a wolf can train max fixed amount of stats just to inherit some part of it, the approximate "ceiling" will be reached somewhere even without diminishing returns or daily cap (regarding pack wolves or when player's activity is taken as a factor).

Orion's proposed solution... well, it seems to require much discussing. While I'd like a change that would make higher generation wolves more valuable, I'm quite skeptical regarding direct buff to long generation breeding. And this NIB requirement - why couldn't IB wolves just benefit from it as well?

Also, I would like proposals of breeding higher stats to be put in lower priority than proposals of making stats more useful. Stat breeding is soft capped and stat usefulness is hard capped. Highest stat wolves can get everything this game offers:

large trails in Rainforest/Glacier,
high hunting chances (season capped in easier biomes),
pup training multiplied by 3 (all pups are born with less than 2/3 of the better parent stat and the parent can be a tutor),
+1 modifier to all stat related moves in battles (462 strength for strongest bears, 440 strength/speed/agility/smarts for level 25 wolves).

There needs to be more and for even higher stats.

Dżanek
#24018

Posted 2023-06-05 12:52:18

#1025511

I would appreciate it if higher gens bring higher statts. Currently, it is almost a waste to continue breeding from G3, so the values stagnate without pushing.
But I am also of the opinion that NIB should still bring a plus with it knd ib a handycap. So it makes somwan maybe high gen wolves with nib really valuable and brings new targets.

Rhallwyn
#29990

Posted 2023-06-06 10:55:54

#1025766

I'm all for bringing more value into higher generation wolves but what do you think about some neat alternatives rather than pushing up stats? I had one about skills that is explained here but since talents were implemented this thread got dumped. I had a cool concept to develop traits for wolves, starting from 0, increasing the amount of traits and genetically passing some of them onto pups that can have a better head start and even greater amount of traits. What do you think about the concept?

Dżanek
#24018

Wolf stat ceiling increase (per generation)

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