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Disallow Inbreeding to fix the economy

Disallow Inbreeding to fix the economy
Posted 2024-09-28 13:58:15
#1286002
We're all painfully aware the wolvden economy is broken, partially due to rare chased NBWs being the only wolves that are really valuable. One of the reasons for this is the fear of inbreeding with longer lines. Personally I don't care if someone inbreeds, anyone can play their own way. But other similar games whose economies don't have a significant focus on low gen pets and still have a very user-friendly, rich and functional economy invariably have one thing in common - making inbreeding mechanically impossible within the game. Wolves that are already inbred could be disallowed from breeding again after such an update.
Silk
#64085
Posted 2024-09-28 14:06:57 (edited)
#1286011
100%

As much as I do not whatsoever care about inbreeding, the amount of frustration it causes me when I cannot sell a wolf purely for the fact its inbred, even if it has great markings, and T* base absolutely irritates me. We either need to change our view as a community to make inbreeding less of a big deal, or get rid of it all-together. As wolves don't actually inbreed in the wild (or at least its VERY uncommon for them to) I have never understood why they even added being able to inbreed in the first place. This doesn't mean I look down on inbreeding- as I just stated I don't care what others do with their wolves, (I dont check when buying a wolf if they are inbred) I just don't see the point of even being able to without an effect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we have a higher chance of breeding a lethal mutation by inbreeding. This makes inbreeding pointless.


Thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts forward.
Cloudy-Christmas ☁🎄☃️❄️
#141359
Posted 2024-09-28 14:10:53
#1286014
You get it, exactly. Right now we have an excess of practically valueless wolves, even when they are T3s with rare eyes, all due to the mere possibility of inbreeding even with the inbreeding COI update. Simply making inbreeding mechanically impossible no matter how distant the relation may be would be one way to eliminate that and begin fixing something that has driven many many players away from the game.
Silk
#64085
Posted 2024-09-28 16:20:47 (edited)
#1286070
No support. Inbreeding for special projects, whether to keep or chase, is an entire play style. I don't think it would be fair to eliminate the option.

As an alterative, we could ask for an option making checking relatives past 5th generation easier. I don't care how convoluted it gets, but many people look at all those links and just give up. Finding inbreeding is the main reason people won't buy long lines.

Also this would continue to push people away from buying long lined wolves since they risk being surprised when they get blocked from making a planned pair-bond. Do you have any idea how many descendants some guy named Shadow bred who is in several of my lines at around generation 13?
🍂 Leonca 🐆
#54339
Posted 2024-09-28 16:24:35
#1286073
I hear you. But I believe there's no real reason to inbreed for a special project considering there are hundreds of wolves with the same or very similar traits and markings right now that simply don't get sold, a person making a project through inbreeding (assuming for specific traits) would be able to do it without inbreeding. It's not a limitation, rather a playstyle that developed due to the lack of restriction that can change. By disallowing inbreeding the value of wolves beyond G2+ would increase and they would be viable options for breeding both for projects and for sales.
Silk
#64085
Posted 2024-09-28 16:25:59 (edited)
#1286074
no support... some players have a reason for inbreeding (shrug) im personally not a fan of inbred wolves but i dont think that matters in the grand scheme of things! we can always check the lineage, even if it is tedious

edit: however!! id be curious to see how a plan to "disallow" inbreeding would go... it would certainly be a helpful mechanic for me personally (trying to breed double carriers and constantly overlooking the inbreeding coi) -- interested to see where this thread goes!
limedevils🍋
#17757
Posted 2024-09-28 16:29:48
#1286075
> Also this would continue to push people away from buying long lined wolves since they risk being surprised when they get blocked from making a planned pair-bond
This could be solved with a simple scrying system before breeding/buying a wolf, which already exists as a suggestion separately.

> we can always check the lineage, even if it is tedious
I agree! But the way the market is right now, long lineages simply don't sell even if they are not inbred, because of the possibility of future inbreeding with a wolf or descendant in the line that you miss. I also haven't seen that many people who inbreed on purpose (correct me if I'm wrong), so it makes little sense to me to avoid a feature that could massively improve the economy for the sake of a very very small percentage of players, who can ultimately achieve the same goal with other viable methods.
Silk
#64085
Posted 2024-09-28 16:40:26
#1286077
Added the last paragraph about how a G13 super-breeder might keep me from making good stat pairings within my pack if this is implemented. At that point even in real life the risk of harm done would be unlikely and the behaviors animals use to avoid inbreeding wouldn't keep them picking a related mate.

I will share my data from over a year of breeding for combo marking colors to suggest the benefits of inbreeding.
Data on Pass Rates- Combo Marks, Base, and Eye Color

I started with a 10 black mark and 10 red mark pair to breed a 10 auburn mark wolf. Conclusion:
2 generations/43 pups
Combo (Auburn) marks- 6%.
Normal (Black/Red)- 40.5%.
Didn't pass- 53.5%.
Final Pass Rate- 46.5%.

The pass rate for a marking is only 46.5%. The creation rate for a combo mark is only 6%. Starting around 1/19/2023, with no inbreeding, the best I've got is a 4 auburn marking wolf. I often buy inbred pups for R&C. I've got a cool 3 auburn mark one now from the enclave that is worthless to me since his half-sibling is already in my breeding project. Inbreeding for R&C is extremely useful for me, even with my no-inbreeding-allowed project.
🍂 Leonca 🐆
#54339
Posted 2024-09-28 16:42:28
#1286080
Consider though that R&C (which I also do and love, don't get me wrong), would not be necessary if long lines were economically viable.
Silk
#64085
Posted 2024-09-28 17:02:58
#1286088
But how would that get me more multi-auburn pups? I have to turn down so many good studs already because I won't allow another of their descendants into my projects. Out of several 10 auburn/black/red marking pair bonds the best I got was 4. Some litters could give me a 10 auburn mark and RNG gives me 0.

Plus I also chase some of my stud's pups that I buy when I don't think they'll survive to adulthood. I just bought a pup who is the daughter of one I chased. It feels very rewarding to have a second descendant of that stud who I can treat as a clean G2 that can pair with anyone.
🍂 Leonca 🐆
#54339
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