The Stat Ceiling Is Still There, Still Kinda Low, And Still A Problem
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Posted 2023-02-22 06:03:52
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 Mavric #33260 |
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Posted 2023-02-22 14:15:30 (edited)
I'm not expecting a huge stat leap to occur with only 200 more stats at that level, but I was expecting something at least slightly higher. |
 Xeva #16394 |
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Posted 2023-02-22 14:47:38
So keeping that in mind, 2000 stats ended up in in less than a 300 stat increase in the puppies, which to anyone who pushes leads and stats know, 2000 stat points is A LOT, big enough that most wolves don't even reach 2K points in their lifetime, and while 300 points is nothing to sneeze at, but it feels miniscule compared to the work it takes to get the parents the stats needed to gain it. |
Mavric #33260 |
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Posted 2023-03-02 23:59:41
My lead has 1,638 stats and my chosen stud for her has 1,806. (A bit lower on both when the pups were born, I didn't mark it down.) The pups are 738, 740, 751, and 756. Those aren't bad numbers, that's not my point. My point is that they're only about 200-250 lower than Ravenwalker's pups. Pups that had a father with over 4,000 stats, over double what my Shifting Dune has, and mothers with stats that were nothing to sneeze at either. 700 and 900 aren't that close, obviously. But if my pairing had combined stats of about 3,400 and Ravenwalker's were about 5,000, then that's not a significant carry-over. My lead has gained 531 stats since she's reached level 20. I'm not sure how much Ravenwalker had at turning 20, but I'm guessing he's gained over 3,000. That's a ~2,500 difference purely from battling, and those pups didn't benefit much from that massive jump? It just seems crazy to me that my lead is already getting close to the 'it doesn't matter anymore' point, when she's the first lead I've really tried with. i want my heir to reach 2,000, but her future pups aren't going to be much more impressive than she and her siblings are. So it's going to be a lot of work for little personal reward. If stats were retained in a more efficient way, people would be more inclined to raise wolves that are beyond G3. Hell, my heir is G4 and I feel like I should be replacing the entire family tree in a generation or two. Not because I personally care, but because the rest of the site seems to. I might as well not bother try to sell her future pups, they'll be G5 and nobody gives a damn about those. I'd spend more money on the studding than I'd get back from selling the pups. (Assuming they'd even sell.) Selling's not even the main drive for this, though. Those who get their wolves to over 1,500 stats put in a lot of effort to get them to that point, let alone 2,000. Let alone more. That's months of grinding, countless salves, and possibly a pile of guarana and bone marrow. The reason people focus on stats is to feel accomplished and have something to look forward to, a new number to reach and celebrate together. But if the time-invested wolves just end up dead and their pups are a bigger struggle uphill, with little impact for all that work, then it just feels like wasted effort after a while. I like stat-gaining, numbers are fun and it's really the only thing I do besides getting achievements. Just wish it felt more worth it. |
 Whirligig #11137 |
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Posted 2023-05-19 12:19:17
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 Zea #27549 |
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Posted 2023-05-19 13:52:50
Our pixel wolves die. That is a central game mechanic that Wolvden has chosen to implement. So anything we do with our current leads/wolves is gone unless passed on to the next generation. It follows, then, that the features each player values and finds desirable - can be marks, base, eye color, stats, etc - need to pass to the puppies to be of any long-term value to the players.
From the bug report I linked earlier: Sum of two parent's strength → Average of offspring strength: Elismir x Runt: 958 → 190.2 (19.9%) Elismir x Rasbora: 1080 → 204 (18.9%) Advesperascit x Ero: 1183 → 219 (18.5%) Elismir x Ero: 1748 → 283 (16.2%) Stahlhast x Rhallwyn: 1,995 → 306 (15.3%) Compare that Stahlhast x Rhallwyn's speed (their lowest stat) 488 → 122 (25.0%) So sure, the absolute number is marginally higher, but eventually it equates to the parents needing to gain dozens of stats for the pups to inherit just one, which could be wiped out in an instant by simply missing a puptraining day, or not not getting the bonus job-related stats for a few days. That is unsustainable and unfulfilling for the long term enjoyment of this game from the stat breeders. With how difficult it is to gain stats, and how little they really matter in the grand scheme of things (there's no reason to hunt in hard biomes, and no reason to raise stats on leads after the +1 dice modifier), why throttle it so severely, such that all the effort put into the parents is evaporated the next generation, making players want to give up after they dedicate so much to one wolf? Why put so much effort into battling when three of the pups are born with lower birth stats than their mother? Especially when this pairing comes from the two highest stat wolves alive on the entire site. (not to mention how much of a waste it is to do this with a female lead, as even with a white sage no pups were born with a T3 base or Novus eyes. Since breeding is just a numbers game you limit yourself so much) Problems with the stat system have been recognized and remedied before, by taking the RNG out of level ups and giving each wolf an equal chance. But now that plus pup training only accelerates how quickly we run into this stat inheritance problem. |
Zea #27549 |
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Posted 2023-05-19 17:39:31
We have sunk many hours into this game, money, and more… but there is no give back from the system. From stats, to the broken market (because, let's be honest, the newest puppies aren't worth much when they're only one stat above), and more, there is soooooo much left to be desired. Another Lunar update won't fix this. Give us something to work with because hope is being lost. |
 Orion #6210 |
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Posted 2023-05-21 05:00:55 (edited)
I'll start by saying I fully support this topic, and note that I'm not a paying user wrt stat crunch. I mostly just throw $$ to show support and get cute cosmetics. So this is commentary from outside of all that. In the time I've been gone, the generation crunch has gotten so much worse. Used to be I could pretty reliably sell trained G4-G5 hunter pups for at least as much as I was outputting in stud fees. I'd clearly started to see some of the low-gen creep, though, because I'd started running a G1 pack before my absence, and now have a pretty decent G2 stalker line going. ...Except I've looked at the market, and there's G2 T3s with incredible hunting stats and a bunch of bonkers markings just sitting there for like. 1000 SC. And I've seen it often enough that it doesn't register as a fluke. I agree wholeheartedly with the others-- a month of playing again and 'what's the point beyond making the wolves pretty?' is setting in pretty strong. I want long lines! I want to be able to list leaderboard lineages and for that to matter! And it'd be pretty cool if the site's best ambassadors and the folks pouring huge amounts of money into it didn't feel discouraged either, probably! |
 DogBlud #24586 |
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Posted 2023-06-22 06:09:04
I'm actively being punished for my hard work, and it hits hard. I don't have 7k to throw down on these wolves, I log in damn near every day, have the wolves hunt until they have no hunting slots left, and it's like the game is pulling the rug out from under me. How dare I work hard on breeding these wolves, how dare I give hours of my day to this game. There is a reason why people are so hyper focused on low gen wolves, and that's because there is simply no value to wolves of a higher gen, or even higher stats. It's rare to find a stud wolve over 1k stats and until this issue is addressed, the players will always want those low gen wolves and it feels like for the people who do give a lot for this game are punished by the game itself. |
 Jackie #10289 |
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Posted 2023-08-05 05:57:04
The stat system is genuinely broken despite the fact I remember it being hyped up pre release. When I first joined I was very interested in the stat system(I am an early access player) and had a long term plan/goal to breed whole lineages of specific ranked high stat wolves and live in the jungle biome. I gave up after awhile when I realized no matter how hard I tried I was getting little to no benefit and stopped completely and realized I'm better off just breeding low stat pretty wolves and sticking to a low effort biome and the only goal i have is simply to not inbreed... I also thought it would be exciting to see the opposite of low gen seeking where people are selling a 3k stat 11th gen(hypothetical number) finisher focused wolf that comes from a heritage of pure strength building when instead i see "11th gen 400 stat pup" and it's great grandparents have like 1k stats. I was maxing out hunts, sending scouts regularly, training pups, etc and it felt like I was making no improvement at all? Not even felt, I just flat out wasnt getting improvements at all. It also wound up confusing me when I bred a 800 or 900 stat wolf to a 1k stud and got a 500 stat pup at the strongest....? And that makes sense??? Even with totals aside, focused breeding on one stat still has no benefit when a 300 strength wolf pairing provides a 100 stat strength pup. I'm just really confused why this isn't being fixed or why it's not considered an issue ): i would love to have a focused goal on stat breeding and have it more important but right now it simply doesn't matter and my 400-500 stat wolves do fine feeding and healing my pack and I can just go explore the higher areas with my lead.. which is odd considering stats were hyped to be important. |
 Kane #5234 |