Frostbite [Illness]

@Nika I can definitely see it being changed after a little research. My question would be, though, are what are the odds of avoiding these complications without any treatment.

It would freeze the wolf (in dogs most common in ears, paws, and tail so nothing too bad) but then what keeps that wolf from then dying of gangrene because of all the necrotic tissue.

I'll add a note to the post and change the suggestion to be either

@Orion I'm sorry but could you clarify a bit? I didn't see a rule on not recommending illnesses so I figured it would be fine to post these two. Was I wrong to post them and it is against the rules?

If not, then I'm a bit confused as to why you don't support. I could see if mods specifically asked for illnesses not to be reccomended but, if not, then these are the suggestion threads for a reason. It's a suggestion.

Again, don't mean to seem rude but I'm looking for some clarification at least 😅

Sorry, but I can't really support for realism. This is something personally I kind of just know intuitively from being a biology student. I would have to assume if wolves survive in very cold habitats as they do, they would either: have a low success/survival rate (that or you would see them trying to have as many offspring as possible at the cost of their own survivorship to balance out their overall fitness), or would have some way to combat the cold. They don't hibernate like bears (albeit that is more for the issue of food), and don't migrate to warmer regions, so if they have a way to combat the cold, it is likely a physical adaptation. Basic evolution theory work there.

After poking around, it is just that:
Apparently dogs (and wolves from context) can't get frostbite, at least not on their pads. Hypothermia is possible maybe (under certain conditions, but wolves are very good at fighting the cold in general), but it seems they're very resistant to frostbite. Anyone who has had the misfortune of getting frostbite (myself included in mild cases) knows frostbite occurs to exposed skin, so pads, nose, etc. for our wolves, but apparently dogs/wolves have evolved a way to keep those areas warm enough even in the frigid cold and walking on ice and snow.

I can maybe see it be a lowered chance but I'm not sure I see a reason to rule out the possibility of it because of how they are structured. The sources you linked at the end even say it - it's rare and harder to get, but their defenses against frostbite aren't fullproof and it does happen in canines.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/vets-corner/can-dogs-get-frostbite/ not the most reliable, depending on who you ask, but the AKC website and many veterinary sources do talk about how it is possible.

WARNING, GRAPHIC Then, you can't really argue it's impossible when you see even dogs who were specifically bred to mimic the Wolf's abilities and withstand the cold getting frostbite.

Not really a solid argument but I figured it's worth adding that their are encounters that specifically mention frostbite as well so that shows the wolves in the world of WD are conscious about it and worry about getting it, kinda?

When frostbite occurs it usually happens on the ears and nose. I think this suggestion could still be possible. Especially in more glacial parts of the map during winter.

In the research, there is evidence of dogs and wolves being able to keep their body tissue well above the freezing point of tissue well into the negative temperatures (-35 degrees C from the research article). We're also talking about the circulatory system. If something has gone wrong, frostbite would be occurring because of a much bigger problem, be it a sudden failure in a system (not necessarily the circulatory system. In animals, systems work together very intricately) or bad genetics.

In dogs, even those that should be able to withstand cold, I do not doubt can get frostbite, since it happens more or less for combined reasons of how much we have changed their mentality (a dog is less capable of surviving on its own and less adapted to the possible threats of certain situations than a wolf due to changes even on the DNA level we have made to their behavior and anatomy) and human neglect. The dog in the case given likely did not move much for one reason or another (human negligence is kind of written all over the case, and the dog I would have to assume was either left there and so it stayed there or was tied up. The same, I imagine would happen if the dog was depressed or had some other condition causing it not to move much), and I would have to assume our wolves are not sitting still for hours or days in the cold. It says the dog was abandoned, which means very likely it simply did not know what to do in the situation. Sure, the breed can handle cold, but eventually an owner would bring the dog back in or otherwise get them out of direct contact with the snow/ice (i.e. offer shelter). The dog likely either couldn't find shelter or did not know what to do without their owner there to "tell" them what to do.

Domesticated animals are bad to compare to their wild relatives in general, which kind of makes the one article a little wonky, but the research done prior to it in the 70's (which it is in part based on) was on wolves and artic foxes link. (I do not have access to this one, so I can't read further into this particular article). 

I mean, don't get me wrong, it is entirely possible a wolf could get frostbite. Welcome to the world of biology, where, as my professors keep telling me, there are no big laws like in other sciences, just guidelines that are almost always true, until they're not. Mammals all give birth to live young... except monotremes, things like that. What I'm saying is there is research (experimentally gathered data) to argue that this is very unlikely to occur. The cases where it would occur just seem to me like there would be a much more drastic and lethal problem occurring. Frostbite might be a sign or product a much larger problem, like in the case of the dog where the bigger problem was it was abandoned in the cold. In the case of a wolf, that would have to mean something more like a crippling injury, depression, or anything else that would weaken the animal to be susceptible and exposed to the frostbite. Like I said, maybe something is going wrong in another system, so the animal stops sending blood to the paws in order to maintain absolute minimal function (humans do this, it's why when it's cold, the first things to feel cold are hands and feet usually. Not as much of a problem in us unless it is long exposure, thanks to things like clothing and other technology), but at that point, most animals are too far gone to survive without human intervention (with exception of those that do things like this for hibernation/stasis), and our wolves are not getting that. Frostbite could occur, but it would be in extreme cases, and not something our herbalist would be able to handle. I could see it as a cause of death for pups that fail to survive in winter/cold regions (I think the game has messages for that sort of thing like LioDen does), like, "PUPPY wandered from the pack in a snow storm during the night and got lost. You found their frostbitten body the next morning, curled up and buried in the snow." or even maybe a pup could get a minor case of it if we had these messages like that for decreases in pup survival, but I can't really see it being something an adult wolf would get unless something is seriously wrong with them. I don't know, it just seems like something much more complicated than the illness system we have now. There's so much to take into account.

Support!

I dont think it should be lethal but definitely a health drop and maybe energy regen drop while you have it.

Support- it isn't realistic but this game isn't all realistic. Look at the mutations, wolves don't get polymelia. It would be an intresting condition to get in the cold. Maybe only in winter if you live in a 'cold' biome?

SUPPORT!!! it shouldn't be lethal but would be cool if left long enough it left damage and scars permanently! Lots of animals including possums, cats, raccoons, etc are all able to have their ear tips frozen off.