just curious: do you find males on wolvden useless?

DO NOT ARGUE HERE PLS LMAO

ok, so, i'm honestly genuinely curious here... a big reason people want in-pack breeding is that they find males useless otherwise. while i personally disagree with this, as males can do everything a female can without pregnancy penalties and i find them worth keeping around for that alone, and wolvden isn't exactly built for mass-breeding the way lioden is, (i've got 2 pregnant wolves rn, and plan on breeding a 3rd bc its her last heat, and i can already feel the regretti spaghetti coming on) but i wanted to get other ppl's thoughts without stepping into the game suggestion thread lmao

again this is not to argue over who is right or wrong, i have just been personally confused with how people talk abt male wolves here and wanted to get some thoughts so i might get a better understanding.

Uhhh, kinda?

Like, if they have a good base and markings I'd be disappointed they were a male if I already had a good stud/leader, but if they have good proficiency or stats I'd be like "yeah ok I'll keep it" -- or if I need more males in my lore slkdfjs

I don't think males are useless. And I think for certain roles males just might be better than females because they don't have the energy or nested penalties. Like a male herbalist would be a much better choice than female one, unless you just nest females on the last day. I think stalker and finisher males would be better too, as it's not a big deal to just have one chaser to do the job of two if one chaser is nested. But if you nested stalker or finisher, it makes hunts harder.  

Yes, high statted or pretty males won't pass their genes - but for me, it's a good thing to have wolves on my pack I'm not even tempted at breeding. I usually wanna try breeding even my temp NBWs with random studs to just test my luck with muties haha. 

Not to mention, people also have males for roleplay reasons.

Yes I do, I don't see the point in having males if you cannot breed them, its better to just have a pack of females at this point, not only can you potentially makes a lot of sc off of pups by selling them but the pregnancy penalty doesn't really bother me, its only for a short period of time. The only reason I keep some of my males is because I will makes them my breeding male later on or I do not have enough wolves for a full hunting party.

Yes. Female wolves do everything that males do and can also be bred for more puppies. With the current breeding system, other than your 'breeding wolf', there is no need for any other male wolves in your pack. While they can still hunt, scout, medicate etc, they cannot breed. And in a game where genetics makes up such a large part of the gameplay, this is incredibly devastating. The pregnancy debuff isn't that punitive, and players can always choose to stagger breedings if they are having difficulties with pups and the like, whereas males just can't breed full stop. As of right now, male wolves are more of an RPing thing than an actual gameplay feature, as they are heavily disadvantaged by the breeding system.

I don't find them useless, I'm personally fine with most of my wolves being male - pup mortality is high so mass-breeding is unfeasible for Wolvden, so you can anyway only breed few select females or else you risk some pups dying - and not having the temptation to breed them helps. Plus there's no pregnancy penalty for males like you mentioned, which is also a plus to having males on "always occupied" roles, like scout or herbalist.

Plus. if you ever decide to breed a male - you can always sex-change it. Males cant breed unless set a breeding male so, pretty much any male in the pack can be sex changed at any time! Unlike females, that cannot be changed back once they bred.

I mean. They technically can do everything a female can do...except breed. And this is a breeding game. So, honestly yes? 

If den space was not so extremely limited, I wouldn't hesitate to have a bunch of pretty males to hang around and do stuff. Like, I'd probably have several all male hunting teams or whatever and just enjoy them for what they are, even if they can't breed. 

But SC is a PITA to get, and den space costs a lot of SC. So therefore we have to be really, really choosy about who gets that precious den space. 

Yes, I will have to feed a pregnant female more when she's pregnant for 4 days a month ish. Yes, one of those days she cant do anything while giving birth. But fundamentally she can do everything the male can AND contribute puppies. And all I have to do to avoid that is...nothing. Just wait to breed her later when her stats are better and she'll make stronger pups anyways. There is absolutely nothing that incentivises using precious den space on a male who cannot contribute to the gene pool, and every incentive to get a girl instead. Sure, I might choose not to breed her, but it's an option, which it would never be with a male. 

hm, i guess i have a hard time understanding because i'm not a player who makes most of their money off of breeding. so, to me, it's like... my future hunting team has 3 females, 2 males. honestly all but one of them are pretty nice looking wolves, but i can't breed the males. but, to me, i don't care, because especially as hunters, my wolves are still contributing to my wallet. i can clean out the raccoon at least three times a week and make more money faster than i typically would by trying to sell pups. and, they're feeding those pregnant females on top of that.

to me, my males can still contribute to my bottom line in ways it matters to me and my playing style. though, i don't see any problem in just, having an all-female pack and keeping one breeding male sort of like you would in lioden, haha.

I think most of these points have already been made but here we go anyway big boi post.

Males definitely aren't completely useless, but you virtually can't breed them. I'd pay 5 times more for my breeding male, but I won't pay anything for a normal male because you can't make more. Cool genes, sure, but their genes will never pass. I like breeding to sell and to improve my pack's overall beauty.  I make none of my money off breeding, simply because my pups aren't good enough. I still want better breeding. Most males can't help with either of those goals, while a breeding male can help a ton. I have a few males in my pack, but they are exclusively there to help do jobs. If you can't pass their genes, you don't need good genes, but if you don't have good genes, I can't craft enough of a personality to make lore. If your main focus is roleplay though, males are definitely not useless, though it would be nice if mated pairs could actually mate.

The energy/nesting argument is moot, because a male is the same as a female that you never breed, except that you don't have the choice to change it, particularly once they get good stats. In a lot of ways we (or at least I) don't dislike males because they want to breed a ton, but because they can never breed, even if we decide that we want to. It doesn't help that a completely male pack would be entirely unable to make more babies without just buying them, while an all female pack is perfectly fine studding. Plus with food so easy to come by and nesting possible to do right before rollover (or before you go to sleep more likely) the consequence for breeding a female is 8 less sc gained from selling food and 1 less hunt/scout/5 less medicines.

Another issue is that it completely invalidates certain playstyles. I came in wanting to breed a pack only from ncls. No customized wolves except the two starters. But the way this is, if I wanted to do that I would have to spend hundreds of real dollars on replacing my breeding male every three seconds, or hundreds of gc studding to ncl breeding males, which, guess what, there aren't very many of, and they aren't pups that I've already bred. So oops, it's just not possible to play how I want to. Guess I have to stop playing wolvden altogether or suck it up and play the way wolvden forces me to. Or, you know, try to get it fixed.

They're not exactly useless, but they are strictly less useful than females, so... yeah, sort of.  If I have the choice between two similar wolves, I'll always take a female over a male, and whenever I'm considering buying a male wolf, I mentally increase the price by the 3gc I'd need for a sex change if I ever wanted to pass those genes on. I still have some males, and I'm thinking about whether to sex-change them, except I don't really like the aesthetic of an all-female pack with one male breeder, so it's an unpleasant dilemma either way.

Maybe at some point I'll get bored of breeding and then I won't care as much about whether my wolves are female - but remember, our wolves die. I'd much rather have a female who I can hopefully use to breed a similar-looking replacement, than a male whose replacement I'm going to have to buy.

(And any pregnancy/nesting penalties for females are strictly optional. If I don't want to breed a female, I don't have to, and then she functions exactly like a male except that I still have the option to breed her later if I change my mind. Which is strictly better with no downsides.)