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pronoun changes?

Posted 2021-11-26 12:06:19
#569552
Support! My pack is full of trans and nb wolves! At the moment, I put their pronouns in their footnotes. 		CursedAlien
#31122
Posted 2021-11-26 13:17:33
#569612
Forgot if I said it already or not but huge support! My future breeding male is trans, so I'd love to have her proper pronouns used still. It'd be a really cool touch to the lore

originally was gonna sex change her into a bio female and make her my next lead, but changed plans when I got a better heir, because of that she's always been seen as female in my head, and I decided to incorporate that into her lore and make her canonically trans.
cr0wfeathers
#14965
Posted 2021-12-01 14:05:35
#575464
Read through this thread, and this suggestion has my full support. Most of the wolves in my lore so far are cisgender, so using their assigned pronouns is fine enough, but my lead, Lupe, would be considered agender. I'm ok with seeing she/her be used for them, but other people might not be so indifferent to casual misgendering. I would appreciate, at the very least, being able to adjust the pronouns used for wolves on the client end (meaning, only the account owner would be able to see the changes iirc).

I'm not sure if this has been suggested already, but to let the pronouns be visible by all and assuage concerns of causing confusion/scamming, maybe the feature could only be used on secured wolves? Secured wolves cannot go into trades, and if a person already has lore for a wolf, it is likely to already be secured. And if people are adamant about not wanting to see the custom pronouns, maybe it could be toggleable. That way it can be seen as more of an opt-in feature, than being potentially """""""forced""""""" upon someone.

With how much staff heavily encourages creativity with our wolves in designing, drawing, and writing, I would hope they could throw us a bone and give us a little more control over how they are perceived, even if some may call it useless.
Venex 🦅
#760
Posted 2021-12-03 15:27:13 (edited)
#580858
I don't know if I already poste here or not, doesn't seem like I did. Sorry if I missed my own post.

No support, I'm sorry to say. I don't have any negative emotions towards those who feel this way irl, but this is a game about breeding wolves, at it's core. You can add their pronouns in their bio or footnotes. I do have a concern about this, I'm not just 'no support' for some emotional reason or opinion.

My main concern is if this were implemented and someone were to mistakenly "misgender" a wolf, who's to say the next suggestion wouldn't be a "strike system" for those who have gotten it wrong in order to stop "hate" when it's perfectly possible people just don't think about pronouns on a site like this? It's just such a risky domino effect waiting to happen. Gender issues can be a very slippery slope for those not at all accustomed to it, I've seen many people irl and online suffer for forgetting to adjust their wording as it doesn't come naturally, and no one should be forced to adapt to that if they aren't comfortable. Being uncomfortable also does not mean they hold hate for you. It just means they may be here for, y'know, the game aspect. And getting things wrong accidentally but having it turned into a big stink could be a real turn off for a lot of people.

I hope that was a respectful reasoning; I don't just want to shoot this down or anything! I just want to look at the very real cons that can happen, even by mistake.
Ugusohn
#35459
Posted 2021-12-03 15:30:19 (edited)
#580865
I think most people on here can pretty respectfully agree that as long as people accept being corrected, there'd be no reason for that. Most players who want this, I really, really doubt would actually want anything like that. And if it was suggested, I bet it'd be taken down.
Shooting this down because you're worried someone might try to suggest some weird authoritarian punishment is wildly out of place. ESPECIALLY because a lot of folks have agreed that they'd only want it for personal use in the game's flavor text.
Like this is a suggestion for additional customization, that's literally all it is. It's not a suggestion promoting harassment for mistakes, people just want their wolves to be more personal.
Goose
#21992
Posted 2021-12-03 15:37:34
#580877
The idea of a "strike" system being implemented for misgendering other people's wolves under the notion that it could be considered a form of hate speech sure is, uh, one hell of a hypothetical slippery slope? It is very unlikely to happen, seeing how the mod team consists of what I hope to be reasonable people. Accidents may happen, sure, but if all are respectful and considerate then it shouldn't be an issue. Not to mention, if people are playing for the gameplay, they'll likely not be interacting with these more personal wolves that have backstories attached. If they do, well, they'll just have to learn to be professional and take extra care in relaying messages if pronouns mean a lot to the other person.
Venex 🦅
#760
Posted 2021-12-03 15:38:40 (edited)
#580879
if a wolf has something in its bio saying "this wolf uses she/her pronouns" I'd think it would be pretty easy to just be like "ok, cool." without even thinking more about it, since unlike with lions on lioden, wolvden wolves all look exactly the same regardless of sex. staff would have to figure out what to do about breeding males, but besides that I don't really see misgendering being a major issue. 		Funfetti
#3385
Posted 2021-12-03 15:40:20
#580882
With all due respect, not everyone will be okay with being corrected. And that's not wrong, it's natural reflex to be taken aback when told you're wrong. The type of "correction" would also be extremely important. Is it firm, or is it gentle? Too firm of a correction is a mistake people make even outside of gender, after all, and it causes dis-ease.

I highly disagree I was out of place. The OP didn't specify if they were suggesting purely personal use. I'm responding to the original post, that's all. I didn't read much into the comments because the point is to give/not give my support on the idea proposed. I was perfectly in line with what Wolvden asks; Only post to agree, disagree, and explain your reasoning. We're not supposed to be debating here, and I won't.

You did misunderstand in thinking I believe this would be used by the majority of those who support this, but I must remind you that a vocal minority is enough to cause a lot of harm sometimes.
With that said, I will not be responding further, as debating is not the purpose of this thread.
Ugusohn
#35459
Posted 2021-12-03 15:42:21
#580888
A vocal minority isn't enough to get something implemented though. And the comments on these forums are explicitly to further the suggestion, so by ignoring literally 14 pages of suggestions reworks of the original page, you're choosing to just flat out disagree than actually look at the plan in place.
The comments are for discussing the decision, and how it can be implemented safely and respectfully for both the people who will and won't use it.
Goose
#21992
Posted 2021-12-03 16:11:09
#580948
Almost everyone who has expressed interest has framed it in a way for personal use. Like wanting to be able to read flavor text with the right pronouns. The only place they'd even be really be visible to other players would be the wolf's profile. No one would be forced to do anything and implying that it would lead to a strike system seems a bit silly.
Also yes it's a game about breeding wolves but these wolves also have: magic, medicine, other realms, can be immortal, have same sex pair bonds and be blue. It's never been about realism.
Loafhound
#10390
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