Retire lead wolf early without ”killing” it.
|
Posted 2021-11-29 09:35:16
I also wouldn't rule out pain for devs as a reason haha, but I do think they're unlikely to implement something with balancing as questionable as this. Even if a former lead could only breed within their pairbond, this could still be unbalanced. I've got a pack member g2 str pair in the works at the moment, for example - if I pair bonded them, gave them each half of their adult lifespan as lead wolf, then bred them, this would be very OP, because ordinarily the best possible stats on these wolves would've been whatever their pack member ceilings were. Technically speaking, the total stat gain between a potential pair of swapped leads in +1s should be the same as you'd get with an equivalent amount of time with just one of them spent as lead. But the fact that you can swap them in the first place opens up breeding plan possibilities that wouldn't even exist without the feature. A lot of stat project wolves only breed once or twice in their lives, since their value to their owners is only in the stat heights of their final litters. Many of us in our planned clan don't breed our stat wolves at all until they're 7yo and we're certain it's time, even if they're valuable T3 NBWs. So a restriction on former leads stipulating pair bond only would not reduce the impact of this feature on the stat breeding game. I would be fine with the concept of lead swapping if former leads could not occupy leaderboards, and if they couldn't breed at all. If those two things were true, there'd be almost nothing to worry about. I'll grant that the balancing issues with this concept are very very long term ones - it wouldn't really unbalance the stat game until around two or three wolf lifetimes after the update was made. And it would probably mostly be an issue for people who try to leaderboards in the game, and have stat oriented goals, rather than most of the playerbase. But given I'm one of those people, I have concerns :P |
 Spontaneite #2993 |
|
Posted 2021-12-03 17:35:49
|
 Closed Account #46178 |
|
Posted 2022-01-10 23:31:20
Lore because you could create some interesting storylines for why the Leads change, etc. Lore is absolutely an important part to many people's Packs. QoL because some people don't like feeling locked-in to their first Lead wolf (fwiw I'm not one of these people, I'm just offering sympathies to the point). You can reverse a lot of early and dumb decisions by using GC (ie: Studs, Pack names, etc), so why not Leads, too? However...people do have a point about a Lead wolf's stat gains. It would also just make the Lead "role" a revolving door instead of a meaningful choice (which I believe is why things are currently the way they are). I'll try and add my own thoughts here (although some of it might be echoing other's). A hefty cost to change and/or CD on the wolf taken out of Lead might be okay (like Studs). In terms of a fee, this would definitely turn the stat leaderboards into a P2W (Pay-2-Win) model instead of one of dedication and planning (and luck?) currently - it's not too unlikely there will be people out there who would shell out for rotating Leads for stats. (Is this something we'd want for Wolvden? I get the feeling the answer is "no" from most people.) In terms of a CD, it would depend on how the CD would work. My off-the-top-of-head suggestion is to put the previous Lead wolf on a CD from being able to do any job for awhile (no Hunting, Herbing, etc., not even Mentor or Pupsitting). You'd essentially have a deadweight you'd have to carry around in your pack for a limited amount of time - say 28 ROs (4 weeks)? 1 whole wolf year of your wolf just chilling and consuming your food and toys? (Maybe less? I just rounded it to "1 wolf year" since that'd probably give a lot of people pause, but I'm unsure if realistically that'd feel "good" as a trade-off.) In regards to the issue that Leads cannot be immortalized right now (and being able to demote a Lead to a "normal" wolf would hypothetically solve this), I think there should just be an option at RO death of the Lead for you to immortalize them (if you have a Jellyfish). This is a separate issue, but I figured I'd address it since I'm sure that's a big appeal for wanting to demote a Lead wolf to "normal". Lastly...maybe a weird (but fun?) suggestion to piggyback but since we're on the topic of Leads and immortalizing... (spoilering since this isn't important) The purpose is to reward people who don't plan to frequently swap Leads. I think most people wouldn't be too hurt by this being a choice to do (achievement) or giving out a free immortalizing to a single wolf (10GC item). Again, just a fun idea somewhat related to the topic at-hand. That is to all say: I absolutely do support the idea being able to change Leads and having return to the Pack instead of face death ("retirement"). But I do not think this can be done without some caveats, of course. |
 Mythnic #51084 |
|
Posted 2022-02-03 06:26:50
|
jet lag #50201 |
|
Posted 2022-11-18 06:49:40
If the wolf is breedable, this suggestion becomes the only way to get on the leaderboard. If they are able to perform roles, it gives an advantage to players who replace their leads. If the wolf can't breed and can't perform roles, it may as well be immortal. Immortality gets around all possible 'abuses' and is more than sufficient. |
 Miso 🥣 #1101 |
|
Posted 2023-08-20 07:40:57
-The lead wolf keeps their pairbond but is no longer breedable. -The wolf is excluded from any LB except for lead wolf if it made it on the LB BEFORE retirement. In other words, its place is not deleted once it retires, but can still be bypassed and of course has no ability to try and defend its spot on the LB anymore, as it is no longer a lead. -The lead wolf can only take up a role as a mentor or maybe pupsit. -It is free to live retire the wolf at 7.6 years old (it will start deathrolling at 8.6 afterall). But otherwise is Not Possible to live retire any earlier. -There is a cap to how often you can do this, that is, you cannot get a lead, retire it once its 8 to be a mentor, and then retire the next lead to be a mentor (assuming you instated this new lead at the age of 7.6) for idk.. 30 days? So you still have to get a younger wolf to lead and wait until you can live retire them. The immortalization thing is not an option for me since I'm going for a natural pack theme with the only supernatural elements comin from events. Plus it costs what would be considered for me and probably other players a lot of GC. The main want here is that the wolf gets to live out its elderhood within its pack for lore or for being a sagely mentor rather than straight up working hard as lead until it dies. Restricting its breeding, its ability to hunt/scout/do herbalism and maybe pupsit, its ability to be in the pack member LB, and having a cap all goes to prevent exploitation. Live retirement being free and only available at an age where it makes sense, allowing the wolf to still be involved in its pack for a little longer, and not costing an immortal slot and a jellyfish is what would set it apart from immortalization and is for players who want their wolf to chill and die naturally for lore in more realism-themed packs or players who have sentimental value on their lead and want them in their dynasty after having their dog days. |
Ursus_Arctos #122452 |
|
Posted 2023-08-20 07:50:11 (edited)
|
Ursus_Arctos #122452 |
|
Posted 2023-10-05 10:49:43
|
 VanSwssAlmd #3704 |
|
Posted 2023-12-01 16:27:13
|
 Ｓｎｅｅｐ #20313 |
|
Posted 2023-12-03 15:10:53
Support only if former lead wolves are unable to breed. That way, they will not affect stats-based gameplay and can still serve lore purposes. And for leaderboards, I think former lead wolves should remain on the "lead wolves" leaderboard. This way, they won't dominate the "pack wolves" leaderboard. |
 al80798 #119040 |