Anybody Have Any Reasons Why They Go to Certain Auction Threads? / Economic Insight and Help

Mayhaps I should have made 2 posts...anyway I feel like the way wolves are sold and the way this economy works is iffy. So, instead of trying to force people to lets say use the TC to sell all their wolves instead of auctions or anything it is much easier to figure out why we buy and what we think and cater ourselves towards the idea. Idk a psychological solution....

I hope we can find points we can all use, thus far we have...

1. Post titles have to say what the post contains - the more specific the better

2. Posts must be formatted nicely and concise, the more you have to scroll the worse it is

3. Have pictures of the pup! Maybe include adult pictures but do not only have a picture at full opacity, can have full & normal

4. List the pup's personality |  fertility | a link to the pup for further reading | Price | Base | Base Tier

5. Have the Wolf's price in the post / link to the TC to avoid back and forth

6. If you accept items say what you accept, like lucky feet / healing salves instead of "offer anything"

7. Sc > Gc | SC has more price flexibility / include conversions since every thread has different rates

8. Bump often

9. Don't put too much effort into CSS / font / highlighting, People care more about look & Price of Wolves not clutter

10. Keep auction / sales rules concise 

11. Use emojis tastefully

12. Don't have a lot of wolves for sale, less than 20?

Generally we are also establishing, flat sales > auctions

Titles that say 'flat sales' are more likely to be clicked.

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So, I'm not here to complain about wolves not selling, but I am wondering why people frequent certain threads and not others. Maybe it's because I'm a marketing student, maybe it's because I have a lot of wolves, who knows. 

Anyway, I had an auction thread I kept bumping and I'm active a LOT so I bumped a LOT and it had all the usual things, like emojis and saying what you sell and whatnot. I also had that my SB was 1SC regardless of what I was selling and I was selling T2 wolves and overall wolves worth more than 1SC. Now, NOBODY bid at all, nothing, nobody even bothered? 

When I use the auction house or rather when I want to buy wolves I open every single sales post on the first page. I figure if they are on the first page they are active enough to reliable sell me a wolf. Then I go through and see if any wolves catch my eye, if they're within a certain price range I bid immediately on impulse mostly, and if they're iffy I normally bookmark the page and sleep on it. Which brings me to my other point, my SB was 1SC I had no reserves or anything so even by impulse I would think somebody would buy one?

The way auctions are conducted on Wolvden isn't the greatest, they don't have the same searchability as the TC, but often wolves are not double posted so the only way to find certain wolves is by checking both or by using the secret 3rd option of asking people in the wanted thread since some of those wolves that pop up aren't listen anywhere.  

Oh and if somebody sold me a good wolf in the past I keep checking their thread. Which makes me think that the big threads are all word of mouth? 

And since I'm still rambling, wouldn't it make more sense if we had a couple big groups on the auction house that catered to different things? Like Oh this auction house only sells Pale base wolves, if you have a pale contact the group leader and we'll put it for sale on our post so if you want a Pale wolf you don't have to search everywhere, you only go to them?

Ah I did put in the suggestion section for there to be a real auction house, but right now I'm just wondering how ya'll navigate this place either by selling or buying. Since quite frankly I'm lost and have no idea what I'm doing wrong and I'm sure other people are in the same boat.

New Year, new me, new resolution to learn the economy of a virtual pet site lmao.

I guess this situation also applies to Studs too though so if anybody wants to add how they pick a stud that would be interesting too since that forum is always cluttered and I'm not good enough to leverage genetics. 

I’m a super casual player so take this with however much salt seems appropriate—I’ve bought like… two wolves in the >2 months I’ve been here, one straight off the TC and the other after eyeing them on a raise & chase post for a few days. But I do occasionally check the auctions just for the heck of it, so ig I can say what draws me to a post?

• The title advertises something I’m looking for. I don’t care what it looks like so much as what it says; emojis definitely help catch attention, but every other thread uses them so it becomes visual clutter after a while imo.
• Once I click, I want to see wolves as soon as possible. I have the same approach to art sale threads; I want to see what you’re selling, and then if something catches my interest I’ll scroll back up and read the rules.
• This is extremely nitpicky of me and it’s my graphic design side talking, but I’m also more likely to bookmark/revisit a thread if it’s presented well. No table necessary, but if the info is clear and easy to read, I’m more likely to revisit a thread.

But NGL half the time I’m just clicking threads that look cool in the recent activity box. When I actively want to buy a wolf, it’s much easier for me to go straight to the TC and search for what I’m looking for, opening every result from there instead of digging through the ever-crowded wolf sale forums. (On that note though, idk why more people don’t utilize the TC when they have buyouts listed. Bonus exposure, for free! Plenty of players don’t use the forums, let alone the sales boards.)

If it’s any consolation I see a lot of complaints about perfectly “desirable” pups (high stats, TII, rare markings…) not selling; if it’s not a mutie or (as of late) TIII, finding a buyer seems to be a lottery. Hell, I’ve managed to sell like three middling-stat TI pups, two from an admittedly ugly thread that I bumped like twice a day and the other on a wanted listing, and I’m still not really sure how that happened. So uh, I guess the TL;DR of this “advice” from a filthy casual is to have zero expectations and get pleasantly surprised? :D I get the impression there are just way, way more sellers than buyers, and this will probably continue indefinitely until/unless the site adds some kinda unwanted wolf sink (but that’s another ramble).

Genuinely: good luck!

Thank you for your response! I am also a pretty casual player, but watching everything go on around me I figured I might as well look into things

I agree fully with what draws you to a post I lose interest so quickly if things aren't right there I'm gone or if I feel like it I give a quick speed scroll and if no colorful blur catches my eye I am gone. I do think emojis are kinda cluttery, but its one of those things that everybody uses and I feel like if your title isn't enclosed by them your title just looks like a continuation of your neighbor's title which isn't ideal either. 

Yeah I am super annoyed with how lacking the TC is used you can OFFER on wolves why don't people just label their wolves as AUCTION and accept the highest offer at a certain date? That would also get rid of forum clutter on top of making the whole process easier to find and partake in. But since people don't it forces you to look multiple places for the best deal. The only one I understand for not using the TC is for unweaned pups since they aren't old enough to list.

Oh totally so many people complain I have no problem chasing wolves so I'm not really desperate but it would be nice to know if there was some sort of secret formula you know? Like if there was a way to make everybody use the TC and sort it better to facilitate the economy. 

Ha everybody is going crazy over the pup explosion too, people don't seem to understand when to chase and when to sell to facilitate trade and keep things stable. Sometimes I do list pups for fodder purposes, but if people message me about wanting a specific pup from the group I just break the lot and give them the pup for free. 

Overall I think its just really hard to tell people what to do so its easier trying to crack the psychology of it to fix the problem if that makes any sense at all? 

I don't do auctions (too much pressure, it's just not my thing at all) but I can give some insights into what will get me to stick around on a sales thread and/or get me to buy a pup? As well as some trends I've noticed from my own sales? Getting me to click on sales threads in the first place is really just luck - I go through the most recent ones when I'm bored sometimes. 

First - Flatsales. Like I said, I find auctions to be too much pressure. I have to really like a wolf to be willing to preclaim. So I like when there's just a link to a trade I can buy out, rather than having to go back and forth with the seller to figure out a trade. 

Two - Pictures. I buy pups for looks first, so I don't care much about stats, or even what the markings/base are - I'm not going to be interested in a pup who has five merles patches, because there's no visual difference. I also don't care about a marking if it blends in too well with the base or is at a super low opacity. So I want to see those wolves, especially their adult images! I'll usually lose interest in a thread if the only pictures are with their opacity bumped - again, I buy for looks, and I don't want to spend all my GC on opacity changers, so I want to know what they actually look like. Thumbing through a sales den is okay too, if not my favorite. But if the sales thread is all links to different wolves? Way more effort than I'm going to put in. 

Three - the more information is one place, the better. Sometimes I'm solely buying for looks, but sometimes I have a future role in mind. The most common thing I see missing from sales and auction threads that I want to know is the personality category - if I'm looking for a future hunter I need to know if they're going to mesh with the team! I like threads that have enough info on them for me to quickly rule a pup out before going to its page and looking into it more. 

And, on more personal preferences, I like kind of funky looking wolves, so I'll often checking out the 'ugly wolves' thread on the Wanted: Wolves board and see if any wolves I like there have trades up. That kind of goes in with what you were saying about auction groups that cater to specific things - and that's so niche that I don't think even a feature like that would help me. 

From my selling experience I've discovered that people seem to prefer offering items over SC! Most of my wolf trades contain the following in the wanted box: 'Would also accept: _ Lucky Feet or _ Healing Salves. Other offers considered.' With the exception of my very cheap wolves, most of the ones I've sold have gone for an items option. I had a girl up with a buyout of 250SC, and accepted an offer on her that was 250SC+ worth of Lucky Feet, Healing Salves, and Nesting Material. I think giving people an idea of where my value starts on that sort of thing helps give them an idea of what's acceptable to offer (versus trades that say 'offer anything' which I know I always find too broad). 

And as far as the pup explosion goes, I think some people get really... snooty about it. 'Just chase your worthless pups!' I... did not ask what you considered worthless? I've bought some super plain pups because they're good for starting breeding projects. Some people buy them to customize (why shell out for something fancy if you're just going to change it, right?). The market will handle itself guys. Maybe there will be 'too many' pups there, but that's an issue for the owner of those pups. Personally, I like to wait until adulthood to chase, both for lore reasons and for the sake of the chase pool (my pups aren't winning awards or anything, but most of them are pretty decently marked or at least look pretty, if simple) and I keep them up on the TC in case anyone is interested in the meantime. I think an unwanted pup sink with some sort of compensation mechanic will ease it a little, but the very nature of the game pretty much guarantees there will always be more buyers than sellers. And there's just no way to know what's going to be wanted and what isn't. 

Thanks for your response!

Auctions are always a pain, so flat sales are easier for sure especially when there is an autobuy. I hate placing a bid and being immediately autobid, like yesterday I placed a bid on a T3 pup, then the next person auto bought it for 20x my bid? I feel like that's not the point of auctions. Granted I guess if you're rich enough the AB is the flat sale. Even I had my autobuy link to the TC so they could just take it.

Yeah I never understood when people posted full opacity adults? Maybe if its a super rare mark that had low opacity that somebody would want to change, but for the most part its annoying. 

Ohh personality, its amazing how many people don't care. Recently I've just been buying wolves without checking since it's so tedious to find what group they belong to, or if they only say something like 'fair' or 'anxious' I have no idea which of the 4 groups they belong to.

That's a fair point with trades, I normally say offer anything because I really don't care, sometimes people offer healing salves and lucky feet, sometimes they offer wolves and cave materials. But I figured it to be me saying I'll take anything instead of people being nervous not knowing what I'll accept so I'll keep that in mind. 

That's also a valid point. The only time I feel compelled to chase is when my pupsitters are overwhelmed and I want my better pups to survive without getting a death message even though I killed them anyway? Idk. Or when I'm in chase raffles. But like I said before some people do inquire about pups I have up for 'fodder' and that aside compared to my better T2 pups more people seem to want a well bred or heavy marking T1 than a T2 and I feel like it is also because most people who breed for nice marked T2s chase all the T1s so the amount of nice T1s is lower than nice T2s. T1s also have some pretty bases that I feel competitive players ignore since they aren't T2. 

This thread is a super interesting read!

I don't do auctions either, I don't like having to constantly check and bid-war with others. Flat-sales only for me.

I will say, in terms of what catches my eyes in threads: Plain threads.

Emojis and colored text are distracting and irritating to me and they pull my focus away from what I'm there for: to buy wolves. I like sales threads that are direct. No fluff.

Having an image of the wolf as-is is perfect!

Personality doesn't matter to me--I don't pay any attention to what a wolf's personality is. If it becomes a problem with hunting parties down the line, well, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

I'm also not really into chasing pups. At the moment I've been focusing on sending my unwanted pups to new players refunded (1sc w/ 1sc buyout), but eventually I want to get to a point slot-wise where I can raise (most) pups to adulthood and then chase them.

For female wolves, I think listing fertility is also important! Not everyone wants to buy VLF/LF wolves and it can be easy to forget to check when you see a really pretty wolf and you're focused on other aspects of their info.

@Dinaro, I agree with you re: nice T1s getting ignored. There are some gorgeous T1 wolves out there that get poo-poo'd because of their base. But I suppose "gorgeous" is subjective, so ... there's that, hahah.

I'm glad this is coherent enough to be interesting!

Flat sales really are the only way to reliably buy something, though people still use 'auction' / 'sales' threads to advertise them since TC is good, but only great if you know exactly what you're looking for. Checking up on things is tedious and annoying especially if you've been watching it for a while just for it to be autoed making it a waste of time.

That's true emojis CAN be annoying, but I feel like there has to be some reason people click on certain threads to open them in the first place, maybe short titles then? Idk I guess headings can be debated.

Oh fertility ha I'm looking for low fert girls and I forgot that point, I normally just click the wolves and read their stats which includes personality if the look is good. I feel like Base and number of markings are the 2 main things people look for in wolves and those are things that can be hard to tell just by looking at them, but that's also something that a breeder would want, like fertility. 

True, true, today I gave away a blue male wolf to somebody, and honestly I love the blue base, I love all the cool wolves, but I feel like people don't breed for them because everybody hates honeydew and khaki for some reason. Also? There are breed only T1 bases and when wolves have a lot of markings sometimes you can't even tell what the base IS and I mean does it really matter if you're not breeding for a certain base anyway? I will never understand how people value wolves personally or how they price to sell Id rather just give away wolves somewhere they would be appreciated and chasing is such a gamble that your wolf will even be picked up much less enjoyed. 

My insight, limited though that is? (I am rather new to the game)

I don't look for wolves in the forums for sale. First, it would require interaction with people (which... Here I am, interacting with people, so the irony is not lost on me); second...I have absolutely no idea what people are wanting in terms of prices and I am afraid of making people mad if I lowball them (unintentionally). Which is also why I don't offer on wolves that have 'offer anything' on them. I don't know what acceptable pricing is, and it seems to vary quite widely. So, I prefer to just auto-buy and be done with it. I do look at personality if I am buying a hunter or future hunter. I ended up with mainly friendly and romantic wolves starting off, so that is what I am sticking to. Anything that is aggressive or stoic can fill the other roles where it doesn't matter though (and if I really like a wolf, I can deal with the personality since I am bound to get more that are compatible with it eventually and they can hunt together). I try to put their personality group in their footnote so I can easily look through my den and see who is compatible with each other.

I... Don't even think to look at fertility. I probably should. It just doesn't even enter my mind when looking at wolves for sale.

If I were to weigh in on the emoji part of the discussion, I am meh about them. They don't really do anything but make me subconsciously know that they are trying to get my attention. I find that the louder/pushier something seems to me, the more likely it is to be aversive? Which is obviously not the intention. I would say the more bubbly and outgoing a post seems, the less likely I am to click on it? I am a bit of an introvert, which makes things like that a bit exhausting for me. I also feel like they want something from me, and I am the sort of person that if I get the sense that someone is trying to sell me something I dig in my heels stubbornly and refuse to bite.

I don't chase my pups, and after I made the mistake of trying to sell my first two ever pups in the TC, I don't sell them either. (they were what you would expect, low stat, tier 1, one or two markings.) But I saw some people in the forums were looking for/breeding low stat wolves for a project and thought that maybe if someone wanted them I was fine with them going to a new home. I put them in the TC for 1sc because that was what it looked like a lot of people were putting puppies at that had more markings, but figured if they didn't sell it was no problem and I would just keep them. I didn't realize that people buy puppies just to chase them because they don't think they are pretty. So, both my first puppies in the game are dead now because that is exactly what happened. If I had realized, I would have kept them. So I chalk it up to experience. Now, anything I don't want to keep long-term is getting kept to adulthood at least. If there is space (which I plan on having space for them) I intend to train them as hunters and give them to new players to help them out. I suppose I will find out how that goes.

So, since I am keeping so many wolves for an extended period of time, I try not to buy (or breed) too much. I am also leery of ending up with a bunch of wolves that are related (for breeding purposes), which means I need to remember to check lineages. If I was the one that bred them, I have a better memory as to their lineage. I know it technically doesn't matter, but I would prefer not breeding close family members. Inevitably, on games like this I struggle because I am sentimental. So, I never can keep up with the breeding/stat/markings game so I keep to myself and putter around.

(As an aside, I love the honeydew base... I told myself no when I was making my original wolves because I initially wanted them to look somewhat realistic, but why not? I love green. Actually, I am sad that it is so muted on the adult base when it is so vibrant on the stages before it.)

Oooo yes! I've also wanted to deep-dive a bit more into the way the economy works on this site. 
In my opinion, the economy on this site is...shaky. Prices don't have a standard cookie-cutter format or guideline.

Anyway, when I'm looking for some new puppers to add to my den, my thought process chronologically (aka how to go about choosing a thread) usually runs like this:

1. I always look at the bumped threads list first. I usually always have a tab up so I can refresh while I'm scrolling through other threads. It is hands down the way I find most threads.
2. I look at the title. While this may be obvious, I usually look for some finesse, but not too much, because then I'll assume it's pricy, and I'll back down. The first titles I usually click are simple, but have some emojis with it and a short description of what the thread's about and what kind of wolves are being sold.
3. If it says "Auction" instead of "Flatsale" I'm less eager to check it out. Personally, I like flatsales a lot more than auctions because it's an immediate thing and I can pick up the pup straight away. Auctions have the threat of losing out on a pup you love.
4. When I find a thread I'm interested in checking out, I always glance at the rules. As most auction/flatsale rules are the same, I don't spend time reading thoroughly through it unless it's short, or there's other info like other payment options. Then, I glance at the setup of the page. If it looks messy and complicated, I'm probably gonna find a different thread. I also dislike having to go through den pages.
5. I usually glance at all the pups straight away before looking through any of their details to see if there's any that fit my preferences for wolves. As everyone has different likenesses and dislikes for certain wolves, I don't like spending time looking through an auction with no wolves that fit my preferences. (this is something you can't really control, though, as you put up for sale wolves you've bred (usually) so the preferences will be close to your own.) I like the convince of seeing all the wolves in full display with their NATURAL MARKING OPACITY. If they include the full marking opacity alongside the natural marking opacity that's fine, but I seriously dislike when users present their wolves with full marking opacity. Even if it states so in the rules, you'd have to assume most people will only glance through the rules as they're going to be similar to other auction threads, so to me, it's kind of a deceptive tactic.
6. After landing on some wolves that I like, I do a couple things. You must must MUST have a link to your wolf because there is no way in HELL I'm scrolling through all those wolves in someone's den because auction/flatsale people usually have tons of wolves in their dens. I'm also not gonna stick around long without pictures of the wolves in their adult forms. I dislike having to click links to see wolves because, most likely, they're in their pup stage, and you'll have to go to the wardrobe to see their adult forms which is annoying. I understand putting pictures up on Wolvden is a hassle, but if you have no presentation, your customers won't have any idea what wolves your selling unless they take extra steps, and the whole point of auctions/flatsales are to be more simple than the trading center, while still making a profit.
7. After that, I look more closely at the wolves. Their markings, age, genders, fertility if available, and most importantly, price. I'd have to say I'm cheap, so I'm not going to blow 100SC+ on a wolf unless I'm falling for them. If the auctions/flatsale are only in GC, even if there's a conversion rate, I'll be a little drawn off because I dislike spending any amount of currency I have on this game, especially Gold cones.
8. Usually if I find something I like, I'll subscribe to the thread and come back later. I only subscribe to threads that I'm actively auctioning/buying on, or if they've got really nice wolves. (I forgot to point out, if there's an abundance of potato pups/wolves with no markings, I won't stick. I personally chase every wolf I don't want, so I don't think it's worth sticking around for new pups if they're just gonna be potato pups.)

And that's about it for me. Presentation with CSS doesn't really effect my decisions to look at a thread or not because CSS is hard ;w;
I also have to say, I've given up on auction/flatsale threads because it seems really difficult to get a thread out there. When I still ran a flatsale thread, the wolves were 20SC-50SC (said this in the title as well) which is absurdly cheap. I also had the option to make offers because these were pups I didn't want anymore- I just wanted them gone and to make some money while I'm at it. I also run an art thread (which is closed as of now) and during Christmas I had YWHs for 100SC-2GC and I only had 3 customers. Of course, I bumped these threads as much as possible as I'm active a lot too. I honestly wish there was a little thing that said how many have viewed your thread so people could get an idea of how many people pass or click on their threads.

@Sepulchre

I agree on the anxiety of 'offer anything' when I put offer anything or make an offer its because I have that anxiety on the flipside I have no idea what something is worth so I want somebody to tell me what they value them at, and well I guess its a lose lose situation. 

My lead's pups from the tutorial breeding ended up with 2 different people who went inactive? The pups are still adols and are just trapped in purgatory I guess. If it wasn't so expensive to keep immortals I might hoard pretty wolves or sentimental wolves that way, but it isn't really doable right now. And since in general keeping wolves is expensive it isn't really worth keeping a bunch of pretty wolves that serve no purpose unfortunately. But I feel like giving them to newer players is a good way they will be appreciated and useful, hopefully they don't get chased. 

Ha, I feel like at this point there are so many fantasy coats on this game, green really isn't bad? Some people specifically look for naturals, but if we are living dreams anyway why not go all out, I've seen some people in forum collecting them too.

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@Battle_Burrito

Oh! A counter could be useful, I remember on Howrse like...10+ years ago? On my page I had a counter that would count every time somebody viewed my page It wasn't really useful I just liked feeling cool, but I wonder if those things still exist and if the code is compatible with wolvden to count page views.

I do wish wolvden would have an official 'bank' to exchange SC for GC to keep the economy in check among other things

Good points all around though! We have some trends going on here still, RIP auctions lmao