Nvm ~ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

When I first started this game, I wanted to give myself the extra challenge of avoiding inbreeding. Being still fresh out of the box, I kept buying cheap, pretty wolves without checking their lineages. I was confused as to why certain pups were so cheap when they looked so pretty! I didn't know anything about how genetics worked or anything like that at the time.

Then, as I started getting more and more into this game, I noticed that several of my wolves were related to Orion. I was stumped. The wolves in question--Sleekshade, Owlfrost, Pricklestep, and Swiftbriar--I had intended for them to breed, because they were legit my only T2s at the time. But they were related to Orion.

So, after some advice from some members, I decided I would only linebreed, not inbreed. Meaning they were safe to breed with each other, so long as Orion didn't immediately appear on their family tree.

Eventually I started to not even care much about linebreeding. Inbred wolves are fine, but I don't buy them. Why? Because I worry that, if I decide to play the game with the intent of breeding to sell, I won't make money because a chunk of my wolves would end up being inbred. If a chunk of my wolves are inbred, fewer people would be willing to buy them. I'd probably have to chase, knowing not all wolves even make it into the chase pool. It's a disheartening thought.

So I play a NIB-breeding style because so many others do; I don't want to screw over my future self by buying inbred wolves. When I first started my NIB challenge, I didn't realize how many people played the same style, nor did I realize just how much the TC was being affected by it. I feel bad for all the people who can't sell their wolves as well because of this playstyle divide, and I hope something about it changes in the future. Perhaps one day I'll say f it and just buy inbred wolves myself.

to be fair, i really dont think trying to play the wolf/pup and stud markets are really the best way to approach making money in this game. theres just too many players and too many pups. only way to really make money is if you have some cream of the crop kind of deal. (NIB muties (or cheap ones), hetero eyes, t3s, high stats, lord knows what else may be added as the game grows XD)

THAT BEING SAID, i do get why its frustrating. i don't breed anything particularly special, and my pack is literally a mess of whatever, so granted i may not have much room to speak since things like Mel/albino are WAY more costly to even get into than generic bases like what i have. I've personally found myself even keeping an eye on bloodlines, though granted its not to extreme degrees but its there. on the other hand im pretty sure inbreeding will be really hard to avoid unless someone goes hard on integrating NBWs, so i also kind of cant help but think those that take the time to go hard on negating inbreeding should get rewarded for that (if that makes sense).

in the long run im not really sure it's a thing that can really be avoided or controlled, solely cause the game itself is player controlled. Though i do definatly think theres been an increased level of concern over inbreeding, especially with the increase of newer players who most likely dont know better (in other words arent aware of the big lines like dick or micheal skarn for example). i think it comes down to everyone wants the best thing in their pack, but they all shop at the same store (studs) because those studs all have the things at the best quality. i think its a lot of we want the thing but gosh darn it so does everyone else and the ones who can give us the thing are the ones who dont do the same thing we do.

i apologize ... i maaay have gone off track, but yeah, i agree. its kind of frustrating, but tbh im not really sure its something mods and such can really do. wolvden is mostly player controlled and i really think the players are the only ones that can really make an effect on the IB vs NIB situation of the market. IB is something lots of people in general probably wont be kosher with. though, the market in general defiantly needs some sort of adjustments.

That's what makes me so sad about how much the staff let it wreck the economy. My wolves that cost me so much legit money and time? Worthless. I get so overwhelmed by clean breeding (my OCD would force me into being psychotically meticulous and organized I'd become obsessed) that I just can't do it. I really want my wolves to sell and be profitable but my inability to play the unofficial forced style of power players makes it impossible to participate in one of the biggest parts of the game: trading. Without trading you can barely make any money or get certain items you need. 

Staff under-the-table encouraging the playstyle is just unfair. I really thing they should take the lineage out of the game save for the parents, I really do. Wanna clean breed? Make a spread sheet. Make it only your playstyle. They're not brother and sister? I can live with that. But having a pup be worth dirt because they're cousins despite muts/markings? Not right. 

(I know that all sounds aggressive. I truly want people to play how they want to, but I really don't think a playstyle based on something that effects nothing should punish everyone)

Searin- 

It can be managed in a healthy and working way, it just benefits staff. Changing how much lineage is shown on-site would even things out considerably, but it would piss off power players and other staff so it doesn't matter to them.

As passive aggressive as all this sounds, Lioden had/has the same problems. I've had issues with lioden/wolvden staff for a long time for stuff exactly like this, almost exclusively breeding. It's frustrating that staff had a chance to start over and even out the playing field and just said fuck you to everyone who can't handle/afford a clean breeding playstyle.

Hey! I understand you are frustrated - and you're allowed to be. I think it is silly that discussing gameplay mechanics on the game we are playing is not encouraged by the site; though I understand it usually devolves into circular arguing, reasonings, and rehashing of the same points. I'm tired of seeing it in chat, too - but, we should be allowed to discuss it. 

As a clean and low gen breeder, I'm just simply offering my thoughts.

I think it's cool how a game can allow us to play in our own playstyle. For instance, I do not care at all about mutations. I do not care at all about stats. I don't even look at them! They are so far out of my purview they might as well not even exist! I only care for aesthetics (which, in my case, is my OWN aesthetic - ie pastel wolves. very specific.) and low gen/NIB/heritageless wolves (in which I have many reasons for wanting and can explain if asked. If I open the family page and see too any names etc I get stressed out and overwhelmed, can't even handle it). All of these things can be a bonus or detriment. Bonus to other pastel and low gen breeders; a detriment in every other way!

I don't care for or breed for stats, which then makes my pups completely unwanted by most of the player base. Yet I'm a clean breeder. There is no way to cater to every single person (or even the majority's) wants or needs or preferences. You may feel that a majority wants clean and that you suffer from it, but others do too! For the exact opposite reason you feel that way. I feel slighted that my pretty pups are not wanted by most because of stats; I too - just like you - put money, time, and effort into them and into clean breeding. It's a choice and playstyle! But it's simply something I have to accept - just because my playstyle doesn't meet the current trends or wants (or ever will). There are also so many play styles; I do not feel we can simply put them into NIB and IB (for reasons stated above). I may be NIB but still faces issues. If IB become the dominant way of play tomorrow, I would have to just suck it up. The economy is artificial. Just as how strongly you feel frustrated about clean breeding, is how I feel about stat breeding/etc. You can take this same argument about ie not having items to offer to a clean breeder, and replace clean with numerous other tags -> the issue will always result as long as there are unique ways of play! 

NIB breeders put just as much effort into their wolves. 

There is no 'solution' I see, and I'm just musing! I do feel the markets naturally delineate and cater amongst themselves. You shouldn't be punished for playing the way one wants to play! I too enjoyed started with Wolvden as it began; Lioden is overwhelming to me. However, one can't dictate how others play (not saying you are trying to at all) - sometimes we just have to suck it up. I spend money, effort, and time on real world things - and they fail. It's a fact of life and a lesson we all must learn. It sucks that it is happening in a game; usually our "escape" from the real world. Perhaps lineage could be removed from the game. Who knows. 

I truly feel that as the game grows and as the market expands, things will level out and settle down. The effect feels so strong now for the game is not yet that big (in the player base or economy).

This issue comes up constantly because this IS a breeding SIM. It's going to continue! I'm old - I was around when the first forum pet sites were started [feel free to ask me about them:)]. 

Sorry if this isn't caught up to the convo! Started typing it a bit ago. Again, just musing:)

I’m pretty much the worst of them I think. I keep clean lines and to make that easier on myself (haha yeah right) I also steer clear of big names. Most recently I’ve embarked on a mission for low Gen high stat pups to start a couple of lines from notable pack members. I also intend on keeping a pure line from my lead where they are strictly bred to NBWs, so their only lineage would be Wildfire. 

I didn’t see the financial aspect of it when I first started and began settling on my playstyle, but I’ve sure noticed it since. Non inbred pups will always be more financially viable - both players who IB and who don’t have a use for them. I do think the gap is quite a bit more than that though. I was actually unaware that the mods themselves are encouraging this playstyle but I’ll certainly be keeping my eyes peeled for it in the future.

Wolvden should be fun for any who want to enjoy it. I’m sorry to hear my playstyle is having negative effects others enjoyment of the game. As a small fish in a big sea it’s hard to feel truly responsible, but it’s always good to think about how your game play can effect others when it’s set in an online community.

The most obvious thing I could see doing to do my part in narrowing the wealth gap of IBing players and NIB players would be to start buying pretty ib wolves, but I don’t have the space for wolves that don’t fit the goals of my pack. Hopefully a rework of the chasing/befriending pool is in our future. I’d be super down for buying and chasing inbred wolves with other things going for them. If the system was reworked and it was more likely for your chased pups to end up in a good home AND you see benefiting monetarily from it, would that be a good way for players like myself to support minority play styles? 

Im down for any suggestions on what I could do to help make sure Wolverden is fun for everyone.

Pample- 

Thank you for the insight! I always love seeing different viewpoints!

(Some insight into what I'm about to say: I'm autistic and have a myriad of mental issues so I can be very dissociative and often even obsessive when something excites/stresses me out. I have put a lot of money into this game simply because I work a lot and have a gaming fund set aside (I'm talking hundreds of $ on this game alone) just for such purchases.)

Just like with Lioden was this game is one of the only things in my life I feel like I have control over in what I buy, breed, sell, customize, etc etc. It's no one else's fault really, and I don't hold it to anyone but the staff, but it feels like I'm being crushed under a playstyle I literally cannot play. It's not that I'm too lazy, it's just that it would make me obsessive to the point it would harm my mental health. 

I want to fit in to the community, including the market and breeding trends, but it feels like I'm being forced to the sidelines because of how little staff is willing to do to even the playing field. As little as it matters/effects other players, it makes me feel like the real world does. Though it may not effect others like it effects me (and that's fine) it genuinely makes me tear up how little I fit in to even this game. It like even the things I love don't really have a place for me. 

I suppose my issues with it are all personal and self conscious, and my issues shouldn't effect others. It all just overwhelms me and stresses me out when this is supposed to be the place I get to relax and not stress so much about the real world ya know?. 

Ah! I totally get it! This has opened my eyes for sure. I feel for you; I'm on this game constantly and also use it as my escape/have control over, I can't imagine how I would feel if the way I chose to play was putting me at such a disadvantage/on the sidelines. No one should feel that way:( We love wolvden! Similar to what Cloudeh said, I don't want anyone to suffer from a choice albeit small in my playstyle. I'll try to think of things to do and encourage other clean breeders to do to even out the game.

Nah, exactly - this should be the place to come to relax! I get it. Hmmm. 

Cloudeh-

I'm so happy you're enjoying your playstyle! That's all I want for my fellow players. Mods and admins openly state that breeding lines have no real effect to sate players like me, but allowing the extensive lineage lines encourages it quite a bit and they know that. Mods and admins also usually play clean themselves and often dominate the market with their personal accounts because of this playstyle, which is fine if they're enjoying themselves I suppose. 

I simply want this game to be fun and enjoyable the everyone, but the allowance of such an extensive obsession for clean breeding just makes it near impossible anymore. I've got no issues with clean breeders; you guys are just playing the game like the game allows. I just know that staff has the full ability to calmly and fairly implement fair procedures and rules but won't because the NIB market helps them profit through people buying GB and other things. 

It makes me smile that you really enjoy the game and I sincerely hope it keeps on being enjoyable! :D

Pample- 

Yay! I'm happy I can spread some insight myself! To be honest I understand that it most likely won't change and even it does, it won't be by much. I'll still play no matter what and do my best to enjoy myself because I truly do enjoy the game. I'm satisfied with others knowing the struggle and knowing that staff looks at almost all posts (especially those that say staff) and know that this is going on. If they don't do anything to even it out, I get to keep being salty. Besides, it's kinda fun to complain I suppose XD