Nvm ~ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is for the staff should they ever bother to read this-

The majority of people on this thread (and I'm sure at least 1/3 of the CB community) are clean breeding because they can't make profit otherwise. Clean breeding is making the economy impossible to navigate and it is a real issue. Consider changing some stuff if not for the happiness of your players then for pity. 

You're asking for a change to be implemented to encourage people to be more willing to buy your wolves, but really it seems like it would just make more work for people who are interested in wolves who are NIB/NLB. The people who genuinely care are going to take the time to check unless you make it completely impossible to access the lineage beyond a certain point.

Doing so would have a negative effect, I think, on people who roleplay and may want to keep "clean" lines for that reason. Or people who want to verify that there is indeed, say, a mutation in a grandparent before spending the SC at Gene's to check a puppy.

Trends are trends. Certain base colors will be more popular than others, certain eye colors, and certain breeding strategies. I don't think there's really a good way to enforce something that is just player preferences.

(For context, I do not intend to allow inbreeding in my wolves but I also have no intent to ever sell puppies either. I am breeding wolves for my own enjoyment rather than with intent to profit since the market is basically garbage.)

Gnoll-

But it's not just a trend it makes it impossible to make money without clean breeding (which I literally cannot do). I don't want people to be more interested in my wolves (my main pair are half siblings, I wouldn't buy their pups either), I want to make it so people can enjoy the game without so much pressure on clean breeding. The grandparents inclusion really wouldn't make it harder, click another button dude, not that hard. All it would do is lower the standard for the portion of the player base that isn't super stressed about clean breeding and would create a buying level that would be far more stable and would level out the economy. You're right! People who really care would click again! They can sell their multi generational clean kid for an obscene amount if they'd like because they find it far more valuable. But those who don't clean breed religiously and do so only to keep afloat would find the bar far more suitable and people could legit make money without having to stress about 4 generations back. It gives newer players the chance to make money a little quicker as well through breeding. They're still have to work for it, but they also wouldn't have to buy GC to keep up with food and amusement demand. 

You need to understand that this isn't my attempt to hurt clean breeders, this is my attempt to try and make the community a little more enjoyable for everyone. I get it if you're a fanatic and have the dozens of hours and/or mental health to meticulously clean breed, but some of us don't and this is our only escape. Clean breeding isn't a trend. It arrives and it never leaves; look at lioden. 

While I agree that the gap can be stressful, it all really boils down to opinion. You don't HAVE to sell your mutes/pretty wolves for dirt cheap just because they are inbred, that's a choice and 100% up to the player. The gap is there yeah, but some people who have even commented on this post state that they don't care about inbreeding, and the gap is there because players have chosen to sell the inbred mutes/pretty wolves for cheap. The mods cant control how people feel about inbred pups no matter what they are or look like or have, it can get annoying and everything but this should be something that doesn't change. It takes more time to sell these "less desirable" wolves but it still happens every day. (Sorry if this is confusing, Im cooking and my mind is in three different places lol)

edit: Fixed a word I forgot to add

It's nigh-impossible to make a consistent profit off breeding, unless you're breeding muties/carriers or T3s (all of which I'd hardly call "consistent" given the low chances and number of "failed" pups that get produced).

When you take into consideration the resources it takes to feed/amuse both parents and the pups (unless you're managing to sell every pup the day they're weaned), OR the SC/GC that goes into stud requests, OR the SC/GC that goes into buying a wolf for a breeding pair, there's little to no profit to be made off pups, clean-bred or otherwise.

I also think it's a massive stretch to say that "clean breeding is making the economy impossible to navigate and it is a real issue". Is it an issue? That depends on your playstyle. I find the puppy market absolutely DROWNING in all types of puppies with all sorts of lineages. Finding wolves that aren't related to a "big name" is more difficult, for sure, but as more players come in and hunker down the competition will spread out. There are already a ton of players who specifically avoid "big name" wolves and set out to do their own thing or collaborate with like-minded folks.

The pup economy is rough almost entirely regardless of a pup's lineage because there are so damned many pups to wade through, and there's next to no consistency on how much a marking or # of stats or a specific base goes for, so Person A might sell Puppy w/ X Trait for 100 SC and then Person B comes along and puts Another Puppy w/ X Trait for 10 SC on the TC and the value shifts as people see that.

I started a thread to sell refunded* pups because trying to sell them all is a massive hassle (and they all have pros/cons--all are over 300 stats. Most are t1 but it's hard to comment on appearance when everyone has such vastly different tastes). Even that barely makes a dent, and I don't breed terribly often. Most of my wolves get bred, at most, 2 times in total, and only when they're quite old.

I clean-breed because it's more challenging and rewarding for me. I have an aversion to wolves with repeating names in their family trees. I entirely avoid inbreeding (and inbred wolves) and I'm at a point where I'm even considering chasing/selling off any wolves I have that are related to "big name" studs, because it's a more interesting way for me to play and build up my own pack.

To each their own, and that's fine. But the reality is, if you choose to play a certain way, and especially if you put real-life currency into it, then that's a risk you're taking. You're well aware that inbred wolves sell for less, but you choose to spend GC (and potentially real-life money) on customizing and breeding inbred wolves (or further inbreeding) them anyway. That's on you. Perhaps find another way to make those wolves worth more to offset it? We all have to find ways to get our wolves to sell if we want to sell them, and you're aware that you're just making it harder on yourself by inbreeding because that's not how the majority of people want to play. Regardless of whether "inbred" and "clean-bred" are completely arbitrary, the fact of the matter is most people play without inbreeding their wolves, for whatever reason they have. Just like you play with inbreeding for whatever reasons you have. That's that. That's how most people want to play, and you either have to accept it and continue playing your own way or fold to it.

And why would the staff changes things for "pity"?! I'm really lost here. That makes no sense from any perspective. Why would a game orient itself towards a small section of the playerbase playing a specific style? They've already set it up in a way that's pretty damn open simply by allowing inbreeding without any negative impact on offspring. I think that's as fair as it can get.

I've also never seen any instances of staff, in any way, encouraging any specific playstyle. But perhaps I've missed threads on the subject somewhere?

I just want to say I agree with Leeks post^

Trend was definitely the wrong word for me to use. Let me rephrase.

Breeding higher tier base colors takes work.
Breeding for higher stats takes work.
Breeding for mutations takes work.
Breeding for NIB lines takes work.

That is the reason they are typically worth more. You yourself have admitted some players don't have the time or energy to maintain clean lines. But that does not mean players who take the time and effort to do that work should be punished.

I would very much like to point out that moving the great great grandparents a page back would not ruin absolutely anyone's game

It's not punishing anyone, it's lowering the bar a tad. Religious clean breeder? Cool! Your prices can stay where they're at. Not a religious clean breeder? Now you have one less generation (that is absolutely meaningless if you stop at gp's anyway (like I've seen so many people say) to worry about pouring over and worrying about on the market.

Edit: I don't wanna punish anyone guys, I wanna make the general gameplay more steady.

I also agree with Leek's post. But a lot of good facts have been brought to light here. Everyone is also entitled to their opinion. 

For me, I prefer to try to keep to clean breeding because of the added challenge of it. I have not stuck 100% to it for the sake of trying to get TIII bases and muts, but I do keep those wolves in a separate den for quick clarification. I also stay away, for the most part, from buying/studding to any of the big names. 

BUT, and I'm sure everyone has noticed this, it is nearly impossible to sell wolves, clean-bred, dirty or otherwise, for any sort of profit. I can't even sell clean-bred TII pups that are over 450 stats. Either they sale for pennies, like legit under 10 SC, or I chase them, which I hate doing because TII pups over 450 stats should be worth SOMETHING, even if they are "dirty."

The market is just so saturated with pups that I think people started advertising as clean/purebred simply to try to get them to sell. And it's taken off, much to their delight I'm sure. But like I said, even clean breeders are having trouble selling pups, there's just too many. Right now you just can't expect to make a profit in the game solely off selling pups. It sucks but there you go. 

Interesting note: I do play Lioden as well, and even with the warning that shows up in the family tree people just don't seem to care about it as much there. I inbreed like a mf on that game, and people still buy my lions/cubs. I think the fact that Wolvden is a brandy-new and shiny game the idea of completely clean/heritage-less wolves is exciting.