Nvm ~ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So is THAT why hardly anyone buys my pups?  Because sometimes I get rare bases and I sell them cheaply but people still don't buy them and I completely agree with you Andromeda, a lot of the time the game feels like a job xD I try to avoid inbreeding my wolves because I don't like it, but sometimes inbreeding happens when I'm trying to get mutations.  I realize it too late ;-; but I don't think it's a huge deal because it doesn't alter the gameplay or anything and the gene pool is already really small.  I don't have anything against purebreds or inbreds either but the fact that it's become a major gameplay and it forces it onto other players makes it not really fun anymore.  It's supposed to be fun but it makes you not even really wanting to get into it because a lot of players already have exactly what people want, like purebreds, and your just there in the shadows trying to make your wolves that are exactly like theirs, or better seen 

Feather-heart-

This! See once you catch on to the trend all of your wolves turn out to not be worth anything and jumping onto the trend can cost a LOT of money and pretty much forces you to clear out your den. Staff know this, they just don't care. If you have the time (and if you want to) you should read my responses to others; there is a plethora of other reasons it's so unfair.

@Andromeda, yes you definitely opened my eyes! And of course, it's cathartic to get one's thoughts out:) Yeah I hadn't thought much about/paid much mind to the staff thing as well. 

Pample- 

This conversation has made me very happy. Thank you!

@andromeda, Ditto!:)

Hey there! I hope you don't mind my jumping in here because I'm a clean breeder but I had a question! I've never played Lioden nor any other breeding sims, and on my very first day on Wolvden I shuffled towards clean breeding not because the community told me to or because inbred pups were worthless, but because that was just what made sense to me. I could see my wolf's lineage, and because that information was available it just made sense to me to try and keep it clean of inbreeding. 

You've been mentioning a lot that you'd like the staff to do something about it to make it more fair for breeders like you who don't want to clean breed, but everytime I read that i'm a little stuck on what the staff could do. I mean, if we want this to be fair for everyone, is there even a way to fix this? Because I don't think there is. From what I'm aware on Lioden there is a feature that detects inbreeding for you and warns you of it by skimming family trees and detecting if the same lion is on there twice - that feature isn't in Wolvden, so it seems to me that the staff here have already taken a step back from 'punishing' inbreeders (or at least making it less in-your-face that a wolf is inbred. There are no drawbacks to inbreeding that they've added, the only way to even determine that a wolf is clean or inbred is by going back through it's family tree and looking yourself (sometimes looking back 10 generations if you're patient / that determined).

My worry is it seems like you'd like to take away that aspect, or at least shorten the lineage that you can see in the family. If hypothetically this was done, I don't see how it's 'fair' for everyone - especially not clean breeders. If the market trends are leaning towards clean breeding being the norm, then it's safe to say that more than 50% of the population want to remain clean breeding. That want towards clean breeding does not go away if you quietly delete lineage past a certain point - for example, there are many Faelor great-grandchildren whom I can eyeball and without checking their lineage know that the wolf is related to Faelor. Even if Faelor was deleted from their lineage because he's 6 generations out, I still know he's there and it would be very upsetting to me as a clean breeder who wants to clean breed to challenge myself if I couldn't access that information easily. It wouldn't stop clean breeding to do this, it would make clean breeding much much harder and more annoying but not impossible, it would not boost the value of inbred wolves. I could merely go visit the page of the wolf furthest back in the lineage and then take a look at his family tree, and then do that with the rest of the wolves where the family tree cuts off. I just don't see how this is a 'fair' change to ask for, and though I do understand your frustrations and your desire to even the field between types of breeders, I don't think that making things harder on clean breeders is a fair way to make things easier for inbreeders. I think the system we have now is the fairest we could possibly have between the two - we can see the entire lineage, though wolves after a certain generation do fall off the page so you need to go look for them if you'd like to look for instances of inbreeding later on (and some players I know do only care about inbreeding within the first 5 generations), there is no in-your-face "If you breed these two wolves, you will be inbreeding!" notification which i think is a big plus from how Lioden's system apparently is, and there are no downsides to inbreeding as far as gameplay goes. 

Sorry if this comes across wrong, I just see this argument come across a lot as a clean breeder and I'm genuinely confused how people who don't conform to the playstyle (which is obviously the most dominant playstyle in the game) want to make things that much harder on us to try and even things out, when we already have it difficult enough at times skimming through 8 different family trees to decide if a stud and a female are a clean match to breed. 

Quite honestly, I don't care a whit about inbreeding. As someone in the world of dog breeding, a completely clean dog is rare- inbreeding helps pass on champion traits. The only, ONLY reason I try not to inbreed (mutie breeder) is that it lowers prices. Unless inbreeding some day has health consequences or something, I'm going to stand by that view. 

RelevantKoala-

I completely understand! I exaggerated a little in a response or two, I'll admit. I don't want them to delete lineage as much as slim down how much you can see in a bloodline before having to click further back. I don't want to take away the features that allow clean breeding as much as discourage the obsession with it and encourage a drop in prices or a rise in prices for IB wolves. I feel if they kept only parents and grandparents it would help quite a bit considering of people see the same name twice anywhere in the first page and it's immediately ruled out for inbreeding. I feel the standard for what a clean wolf is should be lowered to at least cater to those who only mildly inbreed. You've seen the comments here (I assume), some of these people clean breed simply because they have to to make make money. 

Lowering the standard for the general player base would either lower NIB wolf prices or raise IB prices. A wolf with a super rare base and rare markings selling for 20sc simply because their grandparents are related is absolutely ridiculous. I can barely sell my carriers or my actual mela/albino kids because of inbreeding. My carriers would be worth thousands all together were it not for their parents (which are half siblings I'll admit) and I'll be lucky if I even get 100sc for them. It's absolutely ridiculous. 

I don't want clean breeding to be taken away, I want it to be managed so people like me who either can't or really don't want to clean breed can at least have a chance at being able to play without piling hours and hours and hours of grinding into our schedules when we simply can't either for work, school, or disability. 

I want an environment where I can have fun and not feel like I'm being forced into something that makes me miserable with the only alternatives being stressing about grinding or having to buy GC to keep up with food, amusement, and decor because my pups won't sell well enough to fund anything to keep up with pack essentials. 

I just don't wanna be forced into something stressful on a game that's supposed to help me relax.

i come from lioden so this whole "pure breding" is so baffling to me dndhdjisis

obviously i understand, i just dont know why it matters 😔