Nvm ~ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

An Altercation of Nature-

I don't wanna take anything from anyone. I wanna move gg grandparents back a page. That's literally it. I just wanna make sure people understand that.

Oh no I'm not insinuating that you want to take anything away. Not at all! I was just throwing my two cents in; that selling pups is hard for EVERYONE, doesn't matter their play style. I don't think moving gg grandparents back would be a huge impact, but personally I like seeing the heritage just because. Inbreed or clean, doesn't matter to me really, it's all interesting. I tend to lean towards clean breeding for the challenge, but I won't turn down a high stat pup just because they're inbred. I play mostly for stats and looks, not lineage. 

It wouldn't, no, but it also would add no value to inbred puppies. As long as the information is out there clean breeders will still continue to buy clean puppies. Clean puppies are not described as "puppies who have no inbreeding in their immediate family trees." they're puppies that have not been inbred anywhere in their tree.

There ARE players who will grab puppies who are inbred further back, but they're as rare as the players who inbreed are.

This is the perception of the market that we are talking about and there is nothing any staff member can do to change the perception of the market. You could make it so that every pup only showed their mom and dad, and that still would not give any value to any wolf on site. The absolute only way that you could even slightly increase the value of inbred puppies mechanic / coding wise would be to actually *remove* the heritage past a certain point - and that would only work if the main player base decided it was too much work to go to the parents and grandparents and great great grand parents' pages directly to look for inbreeding (which I as a clean breeder, I would do that extra work no problem.) 

In the end, there are too many puppies, too many studs, too much supply to meet any sort of demand. Value will always be based on supply and demand. If there are 100 studs all at the same price with the same markings and the same base, the majority of the community will always choose the stud who has the better (shorter lineage/less common names/clean bred) family tree. If there are 100 puppies all at the same price with the same markings and the same base, people will almost always choose the puppy who has the better  (shorter lineage/less common names/clean bred) family tree. These are facts, and the only way to inflate the value of the inbred pups in this scenario is to remove the difference between them (ie: remove the part of the family trees that make them less valuable) and that is not really an option at all. 

Your outrage is better directed at the community then the staff - at the people who undercut others and tank the economy, or the people who desperately try to sell a pup for 5sc instead of chasing it as it should be. It is not just players who inbreed who are struggling to sell puppies right now. I am a clean breeder with multiple T3's, who's been on the leaderboard three times and I have sold one puppy in the last two months. I chase 99.99% of the puppies I breed because I do not want to contribute to the dying market by throwing more fodder into the TC that nobody wants to buy. I chase T3's for the same reason. The market is tanking, and it's entirely due to how much is out there - for clean breeders and breeders who inbreed. 

@RelevantKoala,

That's what I was trying to get at lol. There are too many puppies. Bottom line. I have made it a new rule for myself to not breed a wolf that's under 500 stats, or under level 10. It's not worth it to put resources into keeping moms/pups happy until they sell, because the pups simply won't sell. 

Also, I have not noticed the staff pushing people to clean breed. Never have I gotten that vibe from them. 

@Andromeda Eternal

But I do completely see your point about the market being so uneven. It's very frustrating. I think once the game has a bigger player base it will even out. I mean, right now I doubt there are more than 1,000 serious players. I never see more than 900-something on at any given time. Usually it hovers between 600-800. Once there's more players it should even out.

Absolutely second everything RelevantKoala said. Imagine this argument instead:

You're an aesthetic breeder who doesn't care if your wolf is T1, T2, T3. You're trying to sell your beautiful T1 wolves but no one is buying. The staff should remove the indicator of Tier from the wolf's page. People who cared about that could still look it up, it just wouldn't be on the wolf's page anymore.

That... doesn't change anything about the wolf. It's trying to artificially change how people value wolves based on your perceived value of your own wolves.

pitching in to say that I also have an impossible time selling bred pups and i don't inbreed period.

unfortunately as the game mechanics stand right now, each player can only keep a limited number of wolves. at some point you have to stop because it simply isn't possible to keep your pack sustained without the use of GC. then even when you have access to GC, it can STILL be difficult-- unless you somehow have the funds to just get tons of bundles i suppose.

so honestly, there could be a bunch of desirable pups out there (i'm sure there are) and people will still hesitate to buy bc of the restrictions of game mechanics.

as others have said, there is waaay more supply than demand for pups period. so really what we need to be considering is how to give all pups more value.

@Rui

The only way to give ALL pups less value is to just have LESS pups. Less supply = more demand. That's why I limited myself to no breeding unless the wolves meet the criteria I set. I highly doubt there are a lot of players doing that though so it won't much matter. People are going to keep breeding pups like bunny rabbits. 

Once pup training is introduced, which the staff have hinted at, I'm sure pups will have a bit more value. People will surely pay more for a pup that's been trained. 

Honestly, I have fun speculating and discussing with y'all. It's good to see all sides. 

- RelvantKoala & An Altercation of Nature

I agree so much with your points and the bar for good puppies is going to be set higher and higher as the game progresses, it's better to just keep your own challenge and genes that you like in your pack because it'll be unique to your pack and to what you like, that's what I'm doing.  Who knows, maybe people will find it, like it, and start buying your pups specifically for their genes, looks, pack lineage, etc. but I doubt it will take only a few weeks, probably months of breeding and customizing for what you like and want consistency on and tbh it's just for fun so I wouldn't play it like "I gotta do this to get this" I would just play it normally,  like a lot of people do realistic looks and a lot of people do unrealistic looks, it's up to you to do whatever you want

I apologize for the passive aggressive deletion of the op. While I was hoping to find that I'm not alone I see that I pretty much am. It sucks but reality is what it is and it's nobody's fault but my own for not seeing the bigger picture. I have unsubscribed from the topic but feel free to keep discussing here; civil conversation is hard to find these days and this thread is as civil as it gets :)