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Please don't introduce humans as battle-able enemies

Posted 2021-07-19 16:08:31
#494116

I stand with you wholeheartedly.

One of my best friends plays Wolvden, but they have very severe PTSD regarding animal attacks on humans. This could be deeply triggering to some people, and as someone who has debilitating PTSD myself, I cannot in good conscious promote this kind of addition. Wolvden should be as accessible as possible to players of every kind-- even those of us with trauma.

I appreciate the sentiment and the appeal. I really do... However, in the long run, I fear this will only harm the image real life wolves already have. So many uneducated individuals believe wolves are dangerous. So many people believe that wolves are bloodthirsty and only kill for the joy of it. Centuries of misrepresentation, lies, and blind hatred for these animals has led to extinctions in dozens of countries. Wolves are keystone species that help keep their ecosystems stable. After so many years of persecution we OWE it to wild wolves to clean up their image.

There is no such thing as "just a game." This website doesn't exist in a vacuum. We HAVE to recognize that fiction DOES impact reality and in this case, Wolvden has a responsibility to promote a positive image of a species humanity has hated for so long.

(Also before anyone accuses me of being a wolfaboo, I am 100% for wolf hunting when done responsibly and when backed by ecologists and biologists. My favorite video game of all time is a hunting simulator called theHunter Classic, and guess what my favorite animal to hunt is? Yeah. Wolves.)
wrightworth
#41588
Posted 2021-07-24 13:12:35 (edited)
#496500
"But it’s different than say, with lioden, where poachers are a thing and you feel okay with that because poaching.  Most people that dislike wolves are farmers, ranchers, people whose family pet got eaten or just random person trophy hunter.  I think we can pretty much say trophy hunters are hated, with reason, but some random rancher that just doesn’t have effective livestock control?  If such an encounter were to exist, for example, it sends a message that people can’t be educated about humans and wolves living together, along with raising livestock near them.  Or that wolves attack tons of people (I’ve been in many wolf-intensive areas and never saw a single wolf)."

So the difference you mentioned between poachers in Lioden and farmers in Wolvden already has extremely racist and classist connotations. A LOT of "poachers" in say south central Africa are just farmers. They poach lions and elephants in order to protect their livestock and crops. They're called poachers, not farmers though because prexisting race biases. The poachers in Lioden ARE farmers.  So that being said, why is it okay to label human farmers in Lioden as poachers, and justify killing them as poachers, whereas you are labeling human poachers in Wolvden, farmers, and thus, claiming it is immoral to kill them?
Crescent
#12054
Posted 2021-07-24 14:50:47
#496549
Hello!

This is just a reminder to please keep replies in this thread on-topic to the suggestion at hand, and avoid derailing the thread with discussions on deeper topics.  We understand this is a topic many have strong feelings about, but the suggestion is about humans as battle-able enemies in-game and replies should be focused on that, and, of course, remain respectful to others who hold different opinions.

We would also like to take this moment to remind everyone that per the Game Development Guidelines thread, replies to this thread should be constructive, whether in support or in opposition of the suggested idea.  Comments along the lines of simple "I support!" or "No support" or "Yes/I agree/disagree/etc" will be deleted.

Thanks!

This member is a Moderator. This is a moderator post.

 This member is a Moderator. Moderator
Posted 2021-07-24 14:55:40
#496553
I support.
Personally I'm kinda uncomfortable with humans being added at all, but the battling is just unnecessary for humans. Having them as neutral encounters of, as someone said, conservationists or otherwise non-aggresssive encounters.
Yeah, some humans are Not Great and illegally shoot wolves. That's actually a problem in Finland, where folks tend to either be okay with them... or want them all eradicated. Sprinkling educational facts about how wolves positively affect the environment might be interesting, and could be done with overhearing conservationists speak with each other while working?
Ihmislehma
#1850
Posted 2021-07-24 15:11:06
#496563
I'm sorry if this worded weirdly I am dyslexic But I still want to put my opinion
I support
As someone who is black I feel insanely uncomfortable with the idea of human battle enemies. Don't like the idea of having to kill people especially POC, it a main reason why I couldn't play lionden. It made me uncomfortable with all the police brutality that has been happening to other black people. I don't want that to be added to a wolf game. It isn't helpful for this game, or to people how have faced racism.

I am again sorry if this is worded weirdly it is very hard for me to write bigger things but I hoped you understand what I am trying to say.
Wingless dragon
#34577
Posted 2021-07-24 15:32:52
#496576
I'm in complete support.

Like wingless dragon said, I don't want to have to kill people as part of this game and especially not POC. As a person of color, it makes me really uncomfortable to think about and would definitely detract from my enjoyment of playing this game. Even if it's true that there are poachers in African countries, this is a fun wolf game, and violence against POC does not need to be added. It would be hurtful to me and I'm sure other players who are POC. Even if the enemies weren't POC, I still wouldn't want to have to fight and kill people in this game.

However, I also understand other players want human enemies and the devs have to consider them as well. If human enemies are added, they should not be POC. Also, the questing snake shouldn't give fighting humans as a quest. I would like to avoid fighting them entirely and that would be hard if they're added to the daily quests.
pasteljpg
#21313
Posted 2021-07-24 15:55:30 (edited)
#496587
A couple people have brought up animal on human violence being a trigger, and I think it’s definitely worth discussing just how common dog attacks are. (Yes, wolves are a different species, but the similarity is there.) Heck, I’ve been chased and bitten by a dog, and while I don’t have any trauma from the incident, a lot of people do have dog attack trauma & this is bound to be a major trigger.
Badger
#10939
Posted 2021-07-24 15:56:37
#496588
I'm neutral.

Whenever you like it or not, humans are canon to Wolvden. We don't know if it's as something that used to be, or alive to this day (traps can be theoretically remnants of the past).
But the game for sure is not happening in the past (like Gold Rush etc.). Here's small proof.

Plastic bottle, flip-flop, some pills. Other raccoons in different biomes have some human-items as well (not all of them tho).

We don't know the lore and story that devs have in mind for their game. As far as we know it can even be some post-apo scenario because why not There are traces of humans, but there's very little of them. I trust that devs know what they're doing. I don't think wolves will become human-killing machines all of the sudden, because it could break the immersion and I have a feeling that it's not something devs would want to do.
🍄 𝕗𝚊𝚛𝚔𝚒𝚝𝚜𝚞𝚎
#28599
Posted 2021-07-24 15:57:27 (edited)
#496590
don’t support.

can’t you fight humans in lioden? i vividly recall some of my lions returning with human feet while hunting before. i don't see how this would damage the concept of wolves in real life either, when i believe that most people are on this game because they love and adore wolves.

fighting them is an option that players can take. they can choose to not fight a person. i believe if humans are introduced on wolvden, it’ll be introduced properly. like the post above me says, humans are already canon in wolvden’s universe. and i’m sure the developers are clever enough to make it so that you aren’t killing POC.
Pikachu
#409
Posted 2021-07-24 16:03:43
#496596
Nice catch on the time period! That makes me feel better. (I assumed goldrush due to the mining.)

If my wolf ever came back with a human body part I’d quit the game then and there, that’s super upsetting. (The devs are free to do what they like, of course, but it would no longer be a game I want to play.)
Badger
#10939
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