Define what a generation of a wolf is

Define what a generation of a wolf is
Posted 2021-10-21 07:59:32 (edited) #544710 At the time I first posted this suggestion, a wolf's generation was considered part of a player's lifestyle and thus players that advertise a wolf as being x generation when it isn't true was not considered false advertising, and given that no staff member has dropped by to say otherwise, I'll continue writing this under the assumption that this stance has not changed. Wolvden is stated to feature "a full breeding and customised genetics system complete with mutations [...]" on its registration/log in page, and it's surprising that a huge part of what makes a breeding system possible - that is, the ancestors of an animal, in this case, wolves, - is being overlooked and left adrift as it is. Wovden does register a wolf's ancestors on its family page, so it stands to reason that it should be worthy of some measure of protection as other breeding features are. Let's imagine someone were advertising a Dust based wolf as being Argent. If someone reported it, that trade would be taken down fast, and the creator of it would be given a warning of some kind, or in the event that someone would have bought it without checking under the assumption that it was as the owner advertised would be helped by Staff, and the same goes to any other thing pertaining a wolf's traits: stats, genetics, markings, carrier status... Its true that anyone can check if the claims of the owner are true, but that doesn't mean the "Do not scam players" rule is not in effect. So why is it that a wolf's generation, something that you can check on its family page, does not benefit from the same protection? Why is it considered a playstyle, when the site records all the ancestors of a wolf, even when they are chased away or die and aren't saved on the owner's dynasty? You can see it, same as you can check its markings or genetics or stats. There are multiple ways this could be defined, from a simple statement in news so that lying about a wolf's generation is considered false advertising to modifying the family page to add a counter of sorts to keep track of the first ever recorded ancestor and add +1 to their offspring and so on, so it effectively keeps track of a generation. Could it be ignored? Yes. But then those who care can just check this little counter - it could even be paired with other great suggestions out there that suggest adding a "search by generation" to Search and Trading Centre. I hope the suggestion is now less complicated than it was! Also, you can find the first iteration of the suggestion hiding under the spoiler tag here: What I am suggesting with this is for Wolvden's Staff to please reconsider their stance in this, to consider a wolf's generation by default to be wichever it would be reading their ancestry as one would read a regular family tree in real life. A player may define their style however they want but leaving this on its own is abandoning those who would be taken advantage of for trusting the wrong person to the wolves. Leaving personal playing styles aside, Wolvden gives us players the tools to track, among other things, the biological ancestry of a wolf in the for of their family page. On its own, each family page will show up to the Great Great Gandparents of a given wolf, but if they have them we can click on their Great Great Grandparents to see their own family page (and the same will happen with the two generations in between), and thus go upwards this particular branch of their family tree as many generations as there are, even after a wolf has not been stored in the owner account's dynasty or they were chased away while they lived. Does this affect the game? No, and yet there are many that will shape their playstyle around this feature: those that do not want to inbreed at all, those who won't consider it inbreeding if the common ancestor was so many generations ago, ect. I'm bringing this up because, as of right now, players are allowed to advertise wolves to be whatever generation they want and face no consequences if this turns out to be false. A wolf whose great great grandparents have their own great great grandparents may be advertised as a G4 (Generation 4), and players that do not check this for themselves will be left with no protection against what is basically a scam. If the equivalent situation were to happen with a carrier gene, the scammer would see some repercussions, and yet those that put value in a wolf's generation do not get the same protection.	Berenos #2759

Posted 2021-10-21 07:59:32 (edited)

#544710

At the time I first posted this suggestion, a wolf's generation was considered part of a player's lifestyle and thus players that advertise a wolf as being x generation when it isn't true was not considered false advertising, and given that no staff member has dropped by to say otherwise, I'll continue writing this under the assumption that this stance has not changed.

Wolvden is stated to feature "a full breeding and customised genetics system complete with mutations [...]" on its registration/log in page, and it's surprising that a huge part of what makes a breeding system possible - that is, the ancestors of an animal, in this case, wolves, - is being overlooked and left adrift as it is. Wovden does register a wolf's ancestors on its family page, so it stands to reason that it should be worthy of some measure of protection as other breeding features are.

Let's imagine someone were advertising a Dust based wolf as being Argent. If someone reported it, that trade would be taken down fast, and the creator of it would be given a warning of some kind, or in the event that someone would have bought it without checking under the assumption that it was as the owner advertised would be helped by Staff, and the same goes to any other thing pertaining a wolf's traits: stats, genetics, markings, carrier status... Its true that anyone can check if the claims of the owner are true, but that doesn't mean the "Do not scam players" rule is not in effect.

So why is it that a wolf's generation, something that you can check on its family page, does not benefit from the same protection? Why is it considered a playstyle, when the site records all the ancestors of a wolf, even when they are chased away or die and aren't saved on the owner's dynasty? You can see it, same as you can check its markings or genetics or stats.

There are multiple ways this could be defined, from a simple statement in news so that lying about a wolf's generation is considered false advertising to modifying the family page to add a counter of sorts to keep track of the first ever recorded ancestor and add +1 to their offspring and so on, so it effectively keeps track of a generation. Could it be ignored? Yes. But then those who care can just check this little counter - it could even be paired with other great suggestions out there that suggest adding a "search by generation" to Search and Trading Centre.

I hope the suggestion is now less complicated than it was! Also, you can find the first iteration of the suggestion hiding under the spoiler tag here:

What I am suggesting with this is for Wolvden's Staff to please reconsider their stance in this, to consider a wolf's generation by default to be wichever it would be reading their ancestry as one would read a regular family tree in real life. A player may define their style however they want but leaving this on its own is abandoning those who would be taken advantage of for trusting the wrong person to the wolves.

Leaving personal playing styles aside, Wolvden gives us players the tools to track, among other things, the biological ancestry of a wolf in the for of their family page. On its own, each family page will show up to the Great Great Gandparents of a given wolf, but if they have them we can click on their Great Great Grandparents to see their own family page (and the same will happen with the two generations in between), and thus go upwards this particular branch of their family tree as many generations as there are, even after a wolf has not been stored in the owner account's dynasty or they were chased away while they lived.

Does this affect the game? No, and yet there are many that will shape their playstyle around this feature: those that do not want to inbreed at all, those who won't consider it inbreeding if the common ancestor was so many generations ago, ect.

I'm bringing this up because, as of right now, players are allowed to advertise wolves to be whatever generation they want and face no consequences if this turns out to be false. A wolf whose great great grandparents have their own great great grandparents may be advertised as a G4 (Generation 4), and players that do not check this for themselves will be left with no protection against what is basically a scam. If the equivalent situation were to happen with a carrier gene, the scammer would see some repercussions, and yet those that put value in a wolf's generation do not get the same protection.

Berenos
#2759

Posted 2021-10-23 11:02:33

#546304

I don't think we need to define generation in order to solve the problem you are presenting. If someone says on TC that a wolf is G4 and it's not, you can just tell the mods you were lied to when you bought the wolf. Then they'll either fix the problem or rightly say that you should have checked before you bought it, simple. I mean, how often can it possibly be happening that people are lying about that? I think it's much more likely that people are wrong than that they are lying.

Katie
#28191

Posted 2021-10-23 11:05:19

#546305

I'm with Katie on this one. If a player falsely advertised something - mod box it. Otherwise, no support from me.

Azzy
#2727

Posted 2021-10-24 04:28:21

#546761

As the situation is right now, if someone were to modbox something like you present @Katie, it is likely that mods would not be able to do anything about it because staff's stance about it is that it's just a personal playstyle, and I created this very suggestion to hopefully change their minds.

Wolves have their ancestry recorded by the game, after all, it's not something players note down only if they want to

Berenos
#2759

Posted 2021-11-09 09:58:10

#557744

Support. Defining the term generation is just a neutral definition, and doesn't restrict/criticize anyone's personal playstyle. I can continue to enjoy all my G7+ wolves, other people can enjoy having shorter lines, the definition doesn't change any of that. It just makes communication easier between players, so that if someone advertises a G3 grulla in the TC, we all have a common understanding of what that means.

Lionel
#34199

Posted 2021-12-02 04:24:57 (edited)

#577210

Support. I personally like to keep track of what generations my wolves are in, not because I care too much about inbreeding or short lineages so much as I just like knowing more about my wolves in general. As I have recently found out however, calculating the generation of a wolf with a long lineage by hand when you have no other information to go off of is very time consuming. But if the Wolvden server and database could handle that for us...

Calculating the generation of each wolf in the database on server-side by using a script might take a bit of time when first setting it up, but once that's done a simple script only needs to be run once for each wolf that is born, generated, or moved to the chased/adopt(?) pool. The simple script would either assign a generation # of 0 or 1 (depending on where the devs want to start it) for wolves without heritage, or the highest generation out of the wolves' two parents plus one.

Without knowing anything about the underlying systems of Wolvden, it seems that this feature should be easy to maintain and bugfix. First implementing it in an already-running game might be more troublesome, but probably not more so to implement than a lot of other features that may be under consideration. I personally think it'd be worth it!

Lep
#51835

Posted 2021-12-03 10:09:55

#580251

Not going to be a very long post because my personal opinion on the matter is pretty simple.

If someone is using false advertising to take advantage of others, report it. However, it would be the buyer's responsibility to check the "product" that they are purchasing. It is up to the buyer to make sure the wolf they are buying falls in line with their own personal play-style.

You wouldn't buy a house without having it inspected sight unseen, would you?

Lythari
#971

Posted 2021-12-03 10:12:36

#580257

If someone is using false advertising to take advantage of others, report it.

My understanding is that false advertising re: generations cannot be reported, because currently there is no official definition, so nothing counts as "false." That's what this suggestion topic is trying to change.

(But it's true, I'd always check a wolf's lineage myself before buying, out of curiosity if nothing else.)

Lionel
#34199

Posted 2021-12-03 10:20:17

#580272

My understanding is that false advertising re: generations cannot be reported, because currently there is no official definition, so nothing counts as "false." That's what this suggestion topic is trying to change.

I suppose that makes sense!

Lythari
#971

Posted 2021-12-03 10:35:32 (edited)

#580303

Just so, as of the time I first posted this suggestion, a wolf's generation is considered to be part of a personal playstyle, so in the event of someone advertising a wolf as "x generation" when in reality it's "x+5 generation", it would not be considered false advertising.

And while it is true that checking is always a must no matter what is being sold, not everyone is always so meticulous: they may be a newbie, or be on a time limit, ect., and I really think that since the game has the framework done for players to go "yes, I like short lineages" or "yes, I want to pair wolves of the same generation" or whatever it is they like to pursue for their wolves' dynasties, if someone else is trying to take advantage of that there should be measures in place so it is a reportable conduct.

Regarding this reply, this would be by far ideal, and would pair up nicely with other suggestions out there about being able to search by generation, having generation counters, ect.

Berenos
#2759

Define what a generation of a wolf is

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