Change How Level-Up Stats are Allocated
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Posted 2021-10-24 12:04:11
"hunting chances"=min[1;"sum of stats"/"biome difficulty"/"trail size"/450+"sum of stats"*"proficiency&synergy"/9000] I haven't proven which of these two assumptions is real as I haven't collected hunting data to analyze the hunting chances. About doubling strength, I related to relevant stats of chasers and stalkers which sum would be equal to this "double strength". So as LB pack wolves have ~400 speed/agility/wisdom/smarts, would you really like to see LB pack wolves with 800 strength instead of ~550 that we currently see? About NBWs, finishers are much easier to train than other hunters because they just need strength as either of two highest stats to make leveling up biased in their favor. It's tougher for chasers and stalkers that need certain two stats as the highest for better leveling up. However, is it really okay to boost low gen wolves in terms of stats as they're currently overvalued anyway? Breeding and pup training fixes stats really well and it's a bargaining chip for high gen breeders. |
 Dżanek #24018 |
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Posted 2021-10-24 12:24:35
This function is useful for chasers and stalkers since they use two stats, but massively screws over finishers, who only use one. This is regardless of generation, and the problem is partially with the five stat system- we'd be seeing the same thing if, for example, stalkers only used smarts and finishers used strength and wisdom, except it would be flipped. |
 orderup #35470 |
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Posted 2021-10-24 13:00:57
I know the discussion is mostly on balancing finishers, but this would be helpful for all hunters. Even with chasers/stalkers with HUGE gaps between their top stats and the rest, I still regularly get level-ups that barely contribute anything to their hunting stats. It might not necessarily ruin their distribution, but it's super frustrating - especially when it happens at higher levels. You put in all that effort in to level them, and don't get anything useful. People have already brought up that the negative effects of a bad RNG levelup are more obvious on wolves that weren't bred + trained for a specific role, but I'd like to point out that that doesn't just apply to NBWs. I know I've personally shied away from training some lovely higher gens as hunters just because I know it would be more effort than it's worth to get the right stats up. It's really not a generation issue, imo, but something that would benefit all hunters. I'd personally prefer it not to be tied to proficiency though. Wolves sometimes have proficiency in the "wrong" role, and trying to correct that (esp. with hunters) is already a pain since proficiency takes so long to decay. If stats were also tied to that, it would be really difficult to switch wolves to new roles. (But I'd still prefer it to the current system tbh) |
🌿 glasswort 🌿 #11643 |
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Posted 2021-10-24 13:04:13
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 Kay 🦄 #4251 |
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Posted 2021-10-24 14:59:31
Since linking it to proficiency could be a problem, why not remove RNG? There are a ton of games out there that let you distribute stat points as you wish. Sure, it will add more steps to the leveling process. Or maybe there could be a manual level option for those that want to choose and an auto level option for those that don't mind the RNG? If completely removing RNG isn't something that is possible (or wanted), maybe at least some control? Like, we choose which stats to allocate the points to in the order we want the most points added. Then RNG will choose the exact number, but give the preferred stats the most points. Or we get the option of percentages of the stat total that is going to be allocated, and we assign those percentages to each stat (however many there are available without being able to double up). Then I could say that instead of the most points going to agility, they go to strength (in my current finishers case). Any of these would also help those trying to role change or specialize wolves that are not currently optimized for the current system. |
 Sepulchre #33572 |
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Posted 2021-10-24 17:08:04
A minor thing: Having finishers prioritize strength more than their secondary stat is nicely aesthetic. I love seeing lifelong finisher/himbo builds, and being able to tilt that even more would be nice. |
 Lionel #34199 |
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Posted 2021-11-06 04:10:56 (edited)
I like the idea of taking proficiency into account for Hunting wolves. Edit: this problem is big enough it's starting to make me slowly resent my Finishers. This... is not good. |
 Ihmislehma #1850 |
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Posted 2021-11-10 17:29:31
Really? +7 smarts? This wolf is speed, not brain. Why is agility only +2? |
Ihmislehma #1850 |
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Posted 2021-11-10 20:26:01 (edited)
 Please tell me how this makes ANY sense. Not a single level up point in the *highest stat*. |
Sɪʟᴀ #37396 |
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Posted 2021-11-11 08:30:01 (edited)
As I don't know what exact chances are regarding stat allocation and for simpler calculations, I'll make a few assumptions:
Ihmislehma asked why among 24 stat points that the wolf received for leveling up, only 2 of them were assigned into agility. There's 30% chance for each stat point to be assigned into agility. The remaining 70% chance is that the point is NOT assigned into agility. I'll take things simpler and calculate whether the point is assigned into agility or not (2 cases) instead of where the point is assigned (5 cases as there are 5 stats). Therefore, you have 2^24 (huge number) different combinations (put either 2 things into 24 different places) of how the stat points are allocated (agility or not agility). You have only 1 combination where none of stat points (put nothing into 24 places) are assigned into agility. You have 24 different combinations where one stat point (put 1 thing in 24 different places) is assigned into agility. When you assign 2 among 24 stat points into agility, you can do this with 24 (put 1 thing in 24 different places) * 23 (put second thing in 23 remaining places) / 2 (the first with the second and the second with the first is the same so remove these overlapping instances for every combination) which is 276 different combinations how you can do this. The probability for 1 combination, where 2 points are assigned into agility and 22 points are assigned into not agility is 0.3 (chance that certain stat point is assigned into agility...) ^ 2 (... for 2 points) * 0.7 (chance that certain stat point is assigned into NOT agility...) ^ 22 (...for the remaining 22 points) ≈ 0.000035188. But we have 276 different combinations so we should multiply this probability by 276 which is approximately 0.0097, meaning you have 0.97% chance to have 2 agility assigned. In conclusion, you're quite unlucky. I'll go ahead and calculate the probability for 24 combinations that you have assigned exactly 1 agility, which is 0.3 (chance that stat point is assigned into agility) * 0.7 (chance that stat point is assigned into NOT agility...) ^ 23 (... for remaining 23 points) * 24 (number of combinations) ≈ 0.00197055 and the same way for no points into agility (~0.000191581). Summing it up it's ~0.011874127 which means you have around 1.2% chance that upgrading wolf to level 12 your demanded stat will increase by 2 or less and it happens in average once for 84 cases. The same thing happens for speed so if you hope that both speed and agility will be increased by more than 2 points, you'll be disappointed once in 42 cases. Sɪʟᴀ's case will have less calculations because there's asking why not a single level up point is allocated into strength. As there's 30% chance for certain point to be assigned into strength, there's the remaining 70% chance for certain point to be assigned into NOT strength. There are 8 points to assign, so the chance that neither of these 8 points will be assigned into strength is 0.7 (chance that certain point it assigned into NOT strength...) ^ 8 (... for 8 points) = 0.05764801 which is 5.764801% chance that no points is assigned into strength when upgrading the wolf to level 4, happening once in 17 cases. However, in fact it happens more likely because the second highest stat is favored over the first. In conclusion and for those who don't want to read all the math, I can just put it simply: it sometimes happens. If you check every level up for every hunter, you can notice such particular occurrences but these are minors compared to other level ups you have done which upgraded your wolves pretty well. |
Dżanek #24018 |