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Posted 2021-11-14 09:49:20 #561105 The 2 stats daily is not a guarantee unless you can hunt enough (I can, and I appreciate that Finishers get stats from hunting into only one stat, as opposed to two). But that's a moot point. And - it depends? Possibly, I might go for a better Highest/Second highest difference, or would have perhaps trained my Finisher differently. I still claim that 44% of level-up stats in second highest stat is punishing. More data from this wolf of course needs to be gathered, but I suspect the ratio will stay bad due to the high difference between Strength and the second highest stat. Breeding information was available for even T3 wolves before the game was even launched, as teasers. Though it may have changed slightly from that. The secondary stat is just one idea. I'm not sad if some other solution was made. But I feel like there needs to be a change. Maybe it's selfish, but seeing those constant level up "fails" on something I was very excited about... It's hurting my enjoyment. I'm starting to detest the poor wolf, and it's not his fault. I don't like that feeling, and I don't want to feel that way about this. This might not bother you, but it clearly bothers me and some other folks relating their experiences here.

Ihmislehma #1850

Posted 2021-11-14 14:38:24 #561249 I think it bothers others for the same reason they thought they would not get the items from the raccoon when starting from the previously rewarded 100 SC per day: waiting ~10 rollovers or more to earn backgrounds, for example. That's without mentioning territory slots, of course. Even in the proposed above example, it is quite possible to maths out when one will have "enough" yet with the level-up allocation, one can not get the same idea, which is awful for the player's sense of agency and success satisfaction. Now, my lead wolf started gettin' a bit of wisdom the nearer she got to 20, and she is meant to favor agility, then strength/speed (noted preferences from both parents). I found this to be rather cute - her grandmother's wisdom lean was making a comeback, so-to-speak. I can very well see such a thing not being amusing or fun for someone else. To come round to my point again, I don't necessarily get to that feeling of my efforts pay off with such numbers presented in green background as if I should be hollerin' for joy. Also, Ferocity's son (strength, wisdom) received a level up of +7 speed, not strength from 6 to 7. How dare (mind ye read with humor in mind - the son's mother liked strength only sometimes too)! In conclusion, I support changes regarding player agency as it may apply to receiving that sense of accomplishment in regards to noticing and minding stat preferences of our pixel wolves, both NBW and/or offspring.

Zeraki #26932

Posted 2021-11-14 14:50:19 #561260 Oh thank you, that explains it well. It's like you're working hard for one thing, and the game goes "haha lol no" and just fricks you over. It's frustrating, and feels bad.

Ihmislehma #1850

Posted 2021-11-14 19:20:33 #561401 Without detracting from your (completely understandable!) frustration, I want to reassure you that your finishers will almost certainly turn out okay, due to the nature of all finisher bonuses getting funneled into strength. For instance, my girl Cai Kyovin was not properly finisher-bred, started with a mediocre 139 str, was born before pup training, and had such a bad level up that I'm still mad about it months later: Leveled up Cai Kyovin (#1952558) from 12 to 13. Gained +1 Max HP, +9 agility, +5 wisdom, +7 smarts, +3 speed, +2 strength. HP was fully refilled. She wound up with only 29% of her level ups going to strength, and 31% to her agility. But, y'know, she turned out well in the end due to bonuses. She hit 500+ str and had a decent run on the strength leaderboard. I'm not saying there's not room for improvement/fixing the algorithm. I guess what I'm saying is pls don't be mad at poor Windseeker, even with some bad luck he should still wind up stronger than Cai in the end.

Lionel #34199

Posted 2021-11-15 04:31:34 #561581 Yeah I don't wanna be mad at my pretty boi I've spent GC editing his looks and he's gonna be my stud. I've been too excited and now the game's giving me a middle finger about it all. Sadness.

Ihmislehma #1850

Posted 2021-11-15 15:42:44 #562104 Rendundant to mention at this point but.... +8 agility, +7 smarts, +4 wisdom, +3 speed, +2 strength Strength wolf. Not Windseeker but his sibling. sigh

Ihmislehma #1850

Posted 2022-03-16 02:18:23 #696483 It's tragic. Wolvden is a breeding game, especially in a breeding game what is inherited should work properly. With markings / bases it works, why not with the stats? Because the breeding is destroyed by these random rolls of the wolves teilweiße completely. I breed in the main focus Stalkers. And the arbitrariness of level ups stats grinding has made it so that one of my Stalkers will probably now be "equal or even worse" than the previous generation. which is a shame since he was born with much more stats in Widsom / Smarts than his parents. If this really happens, the sense of the focused stats breedings is questioned. I speak about my Wolf ᛏ Tok'ra I have work out this Table wich show his Level Ups atm. Spoiler 7 lvl ups that only got with 50% or less stats in the stalker stats (Widsom / Smart). In 4 of the 7 there are even more other stats (Strengh, Speed, Agility) added together than the stalker stats so that he rolled with less than 50% of his role. The last three Level Ups via Screen

Rhallwyn #29990

Posted 2022-03-16 03:20:42 #696499 Thank you for your thoughts Rhallwyn! This continues to frustrate and vex me, and I am sad to see it is happening to stalkers too and not just finishers. Since the only thing that higher-generation wolves can have better than NBWs is stats (and sometimes not even that, you beautiful dog, you) it really does make breeding seem more and more pointless We (as a playerbase) STILL haven't found a rainforest or glacier large trail yet, despite Tok'ra's mother reaching 917 combined "stalker stats" (smarts + wisdom). I am starting to wonder if we ever will. With the huge diminishing return that we have on breeding high-stat wolves, to the random way level-ups might negate all that breeding, to a lead wolf's inability to consistently gain hunter-relevant stats in a useful or consistent manner, I am wondering if our best stalkers will ever be able to reach whatever threshold that is. I have been mulling this over for a while, and I am wondering if another option could be to weight level up stats based on the ratio of highest stat(s) to all the other stats. Like if a wolf has 100 strength vs 80 in all the other stats, we can expect more to go to strength most of the time. However, if they have 300 strength vs 80 in all of the other stats, more should go to strength most of the time because clearly they have been bred or trained a long time to become a finisher. Then it would be more rewarding to train higher generations (as NBWs start out very evenly), and as they gain daily +1s related to their role, later level ups to higher levels have less of a chance of messing up their whole distribution. This is maybe a bit of a tangent, but I think it would be a wonderful use for stat items if the admins have ever thought about implementing them. We've been promised more month long events, and I don't think people are going to be exited indefinitely if the rewards are just decor and bases / markings. We'll want items that have an effect in game, like breeding items that can more reliably pass on markings or eyes. Or stat items that can help pack mates get more than +2 a RO for one RO, or leads to only get a particular stat for a certain amount of time, or something to better bias level-ups to the stat(s) the player wants. Since this thread wasn't about stat items in the first place I won't go into more discussion about what else they should do or how they should be balanced, but it's an idea. On a final note,

Zea #27549

Posted 2022-03-24 10:05:49 #704724 To be honest, I really wish there was the mechanic balancing two highest stats didn't exist at all. I get that it might make harder for those who try to fix stats when the second and third have similar value, although it has little meaning for NBWs who have all stats of similar value, but I like when stats go fancy and not in mirrored nature, like this stalker has so high smarts but that stalker has so high wisdom. I even disregard how easier it might be for finishers.

Dżanek #24018

Posted 2022-03-24 13:17:36 #704952 @Dzanek: In that case, you can just keep breeding to lead wolf studs or look for studs that don't have a specific bias, if that's what you're looking for. Part of the intended gameplay mechanic is for hunters to have two stats that synchronize with each other to assist in their hunting ability. Finishers not having one is weird, but could be remedied. No one is saying they dislike that there's two stats, just that it's not balancing how it's been told to us that it should balance - plus the stat ceiling and diminishing returns is too low for what the assumed intended gameplay was to be like. I can almost guarantee the devs didn't want players to be restarting their packs and hunters after every two generations because it's just not effective to breed farther than that.

Sɪʟᴀ #37396

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