Please reconsider the Black Friday Promotion | RNG has no place in real-money purchases

Please reconsider the Black Friday Promotion \| RNG has no place in real-money purchases
Posted 2021-11-27 04:50:34 (edited) #570048 Black Friday 2022 is fast approaching! As 2021's promotions saw no change to the original formula, I encourage the developers to reconsider this format of bonuses included in GC purchases. The use of RNG to restrict certain items behind luck encourages gambling tendencies and decreases consumer satisfaction, and I don't believe such practices should ever be utilized in transactions involving real money, especially for video games. Confused about what I'm talking about? Here's the link to the Black Friday 2021 promotions, and here's a link to the 2020 one. I'd like to outline some problems that I can think of with the Black Friday promotion and present my ideas for how they can be fixed, with my hope being that these ideas will be taken into consideration for future Black Friday sales. These concerns are made with the bonus items in mind. These don't necessarily apply to the people who are purchasing during the Black Friday sale just to get the extra GC, rather this post is made specifically considering the people who purchase during the sale to get the bonus items included in the GC package. For many people who spend during this promotion, the decors are the goal, not the bonus, and this is where the issues arise. I hope that this is related enough to Wolvden's gameplay/features to make a suggestion post about it. Since it involves Wolvden items and decors, and is the only way to obtain some decors, I think it would fall under the category of a "feature" used to obtain certain items. TLDR; For people trying to get exclusive items, the current Black Friday sale item bonuses act just like a gacha game, with some items having much higher value than others. I would like this level of RNG to be removed from purchases involving real-world money by only including items of equal value, guaranteeing certain items, or getting rid of the RNG completely. The Problems Stark Contrast in Bonuses Not every person who makes a purchase from this promotion will receive the same value for their money. The prize "pools" which items are pulled from in each tier of this promotion contain items with drastically different values. This is especially evident in 2021's Black Friday promotion with the introduction of the Total Shuffle in the applicator pool. One Total Shuffle can be purchased at any time for 30 GC from the Grove. At the time of writing this, every other applicator in that pool is a limited-time applicator obtainable only through events, and none of them are valued at less than 65 GC in the Trading Center. Another example of this is clear with the $25+ purchases with the "Grove pool" and the "Decor/background pool" being combined. Of the 15 items included in this combined pool a third of them are worth 10 GC or less and can be purchased at any time from the Grove, while the rest of the items can only be obtained on three days out of the year and are significantly harder to find. From these observations of value disparities, the contrast between two potential buyers' "hauls" is made very clear. While one person could spend $50 and get 253 GC, an applicator valued at 100 GC, and decors also valued at at least 25 GC each, another buyer could spend $50 and get 253 GC, an applicator valued at 30 GC, and Grove items whose total value doesn't surpass 16 GC. That's a difference of about 200 GC in value of the items obtained from this purchase. And all that the second buyer did to deserve this was get unlucky with their purchase. This, of course, is an extreme example, but is definitely possible within the realms of RNG. At this point, the second buyer in the example above may feel that they could have done better with this purchase. I will touch on this in my next point. "Winning" the Black Friday Promotion, and the Gambling Encouraged With It It's clear to me that the disparity between the values of these items has created a "win condition" for the Black Friday promotion. The ideal purchase will provide the player with the highest value items from each of the prize pools. If someone buys the $50 pack and receives a Total Shuffle and 4 Grove items, it's likely that they will feel like the purchase failed. Sure, even a purchase that rewards the lowest value items will still provide a little bit extra GC. However, not everyone who spends during this promotion is doing it for the GC. I take into consideration the account of at least one person who made a purchase during this promotion with the sole intent of obtaining some of the beautiful new decors. To their disappointment, their purchase did not reward them any of the new decors, and they were left with GC that will just be saved and items which may never be used. This "fail condition" has sparked one of my biggest worries with the Black Friday promotion. If someone "fails" their first purchase, they may want to keep buying and buying until they get the items that they do want. This is great for the developers -- I am happy that they are getting money from this practice, as they do deserve it. However, this has reduced the Black Friday promotion to a gacha game -- a system that exploits partial reinforcement and the fear of missing out. Imagine yourself in the place of a dedicated Wolvden player. You have been playing for about a year now and you have built up a good hoard -- you have a good amount of GC saved. You really like the new decors from the Black Friday promotion. You don't really have any reason to buy GC, but since you have some money to spare, you decide to spend $25 GC to try your chances at the new decors. However, after your purchase, you do not get any of these decors. You are sad and disappointed. You figure, "I guess I can spend another $25, it's not that big of a deal". So, you buy another pack of GC and you still do not get any of the new decors that you wanted so badly. In an extreme situation, you may spend $25 again, and again, and again, until you get the item that you want, until you've spent well out of your means and regret it completely. This can work along with the fallacy of the maturity of choices, wherein a buyer may believe they are more likely to obtain a certain outcome the more times they do not receive that outcome. There is no indication that this is actually the case in the Black Friday promotion. If a buyer does not get the Red Wolf decor after 3 purchases, there is nothing to indicate that their chance of getting a Red Wolf decor is more likely after those 3 purchases, so they will keep spending with no guarantee that their goal of getting the Red Wolf is any closer. This formula leads to many buyers being disappointed with their purchases, or not purchasing at all out of fear that they will be disappointed. If you want as many people to buy a product as possible, you should incentivize this product by guaranteeing items which cannot be obtained through any other means. You should not create an environment where people avoid purchasing your product out of fear that they will be disappointed with the benefits, that spending will not be worth it, or they will get less value for their money as other players did. The Fixes I have a few ideas in mind that could make this Black Friday promotion more fair to every buyer, and I have sorted them in order of how beneficial I think the fix would be, based mostly on buyer satisfaction and moral consequence. A Good Option Remove the Grove items from the prize pools altogether. With this idea, the prizes for each purchase would look like this: 40 GC → 44 GC 110 GC → 121 GC + 2 items from the Black Friday pool! 230 GC → 253 GC + 4 items from the Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool! 370 GC → 407 GC + 6 items from the Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool! 500 GC → 550 GC + 8 items from the Black Friday pool + 2 items from the new applicator pool! The applicator pool will no longer include the Total Shuffle, only applicators which are obtained through limited events. Grove items will not be included in any of the bonuses. Downsides of this option include the fact that the $10 purchase no longer provides a bonus, so players must spend at least $25 in order to obtain one of the Black Friday items. This will also decrease the future value of these items for trading. However, this option will help fix the problem of the contrasting values between prizes. With this option, every buyer spending $25+ will get an exclusive decor. While their value may lessen a bit with this option, and throughout the multiple years of the promotion, this will still guarantee that a unique item will be obtained, rather than an item that can be purchased at any time. The decors will be valued at least higher than 3 GC, the current value of two of the Grove pool items. With this option, buyers will feel like they got something useful from their purchase bonus -- something which cannot be obtained outside of the promotion (except for through trading). They will be less likely to feel like their purchase was a failure because they got a useless item, and they may be more likely to spend again because they know that they will be able to get one of the exclusive Black Friday items from their purchase. They won't be as worried going into the purchase, as there is not a way the purchase can "fail". The issue of partial reinforcement prevalent in gacha games and gambling is negated. A Better Option Guarantee at least one decor/background with every qualifying purchase. With this idea, the prizes for each purchase would look like this: 40 GC → 44 GC + 1 item from the Grove pool! 110 GC → 121 GC + 1 item from the Grove pool + 1 item from the Black Friday pool! 230 GC → 253 GC + 2 items from the Grove pool + 2 items from Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool! 370 GC → 407 GC + 3 items from the Grove pool + 3 items from Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool! 500 GC → 550 GC + 4 items from the Grove pool + 4 items from Black Friday pool + 2 items from the new applicator pool! With this option, Total Shuffle is not necessarily removed from the applicator pool, but removing it would still be a good idea for sake of bonus values. This option will keep the Grove pool and the Black Friday pool completely separate. Every purchase of $25+ will be guaranteed a Black Friday item, and a Grove item. The amount of items obtained will be the same as it is right now, and the items allocated could even be the same as the current system. However, this will guarantee at least one exclusive Black Friday item with every qualifying purchase. The drawbacks of this option include one listed for the previous option -- the values of these items will be decreased because more of them will be distributed. Once again, though, the benefits are exactly the same. Buyers will feel satisfied with their purchase because they got an exclusive item. There is no longer a chance that buyers could get 4 Grove items and no decors. The amount of items that each tier is given is the same, but there is no longer a "fail" condition for each prize pool because the items in each pool are valued at about the same. The Best Option Get rid of the RNG system completely. This option would require a complete overhaul of the Black Friday promotion system, but I think it would be a very welcome one. My proposal for this overhaul would outline the bonuses of each purchase as below. There are three total item pools -- one for Grove items, one for Black Friday-exclusive items, and one for applicators. Every purchase allows buyers to select exactly which item(s) they want from the pools, and the more money they spend in one purchase, the more items they can pick and the more pools they have access to. A breakdown for each purchase could be as follows: 40 GC → 44 GC + Pick 1 item from the Grove pool! 110 GC → 121 GC + Pick 1 item from the Grove pool + Pick 1 item from the Black Friday pool! 230 GC → 253 GC + Pick 2 items from the Grove pool + Pick 2 items from Black Friday pool + Pick 1 item from the new applicator pool! 370 GC → 407 GC + Pick 3 items from the Grove pool + Pick 3 items from Black Friday pool + Pick 1 item from the new applicator pool! 500 GC → 550 GC + Pick 4 items from the Grove pool + Pick 4 items from Black Friday pool + Pick 2 items from the new applicator pool! This is the exact same allocation of items as is outlined in the previous option, with the only difference being that buyers get to choose exactly which item they want from each pool. For a $10 purchase, a buyer can choose which Grove item they would like as their bonus. So, they could select an Instant Pup Delivery because they know that they will use it. They will not be randomly assigned a Jellyfish which they will never use because they don't like immortalizing their wolves. For someone who just has their eye on one specific decor, they can purchase one pack and not have to waste additional money getting other items they will never use. Benefits to this system include the fact that this is no longer a gacha/gamble. Players can make a purchase satisfied knowing that they will get exactly what they want from said purchase. They will not be disappointed by their purchase because they got a low-value item or an item they will never use. They will get to pick exactly which item will serve them the most use. There is no longer the issue of partial reinforcement. Buyers will not be roped into a spending spree because they haven't gotten the one item they wanted from the prize pool. The biggest downside is the fact that buyers will not repeatedly make purchases in order to get lucky with the item that they're looking for, meaning less money is going to the developers. I imagine this system was created to maximize profits, and overhauling it like this would interrupt that influx of money. However, with the format explained above, buyers are only guaranteed to get all four Black Friday items if they spend at least $100. If they're missing items from the previous years, they'll have to spend more than this. If people missed an applicator from a certain event, being able to purchase it with money and guaranteeing that they'll get it from the purchase would encourage them to spend. Factoring in the people who didn't make a purchase this year because of the randomness, I don't think the loss of profits would be too detrimental. Besides, there are times when moral consequence and respect for your customers should be taken into more consideration than sheer profit. In addition to the previous point, fewer Black Friday items may end up in the Trading Center because people will only be getting the items that they want, so they do not have to sell the items they do not want. These items could still be sold by people who don't care too much for them and just spent money for the GC. If developers are worried that this would cause a significant loss of profits, they could consider restricting items behind certain pay tiers. For example, only people who spend $100 could get a rare background or decoration, encouraging people to spend those $100 to get it. Overall, I think that this system would be the most beneficial to consumer satisfaction and would bring the system away from the "gacha" format completely. Conclusion My hope is that, in the future, the developers will pull the Black Friday promotion away from the vicious "gacha" format, even if just a little bit. The promotion should be fair to all buyers no matter how lucky they are. I also want to reiterate that these concerns are primarily focused on people who spend during the promotion to get the exclusive items which are not available any other time throughout the year. It could be argued that since they are just a bonus and the buyer is not paying any extra for them, there is no reason to get rid of the randomness, however this does not excuse the gross practice of the "gacha" format. For many people who spend during this promotion, the decors are the goal, not the bonus. Many people have and will fall into the trap of spending extra money to get items handed to them randomly, and this is never a morally just practice, especially in a game with minors. I would love to hear any additional issues with the system that people can think of, or arguments for the issues that I've seen or the fixes I've proposed. I write this suggestion out of a desire to support the developers of a game I love playing, but a disgust of these sorts of monetary practices in video games in general.	Mel 🏜️ #201

Posted 2021-11-27 04:50:34 (edited)

#570048

Black Friday 2022 is fast approaching! As 2021's promotions saw no change to the original formula, I encourage the developers to reconsider this format of bonuses included in GC purchases. The use of RNG to restrict certain items behind luck encourages gambling tendencies and decreases consumer satisfaction, and I don't believe such practices should ever be utilized in transactions involving real money, especially for video games.

Confused about what I'm talking about? Here's the link to the Black Friday 2021 promotions, and here's a link to the 2020 one.

I'd like to outline some problems that I can think of with the Black Friday promotion and present my ideas for how they can be fixed, with my hope being that these ideas will be taken into consideration for future Black Friday sales.

These concerns are made with the bonus items in mind. These don't necessarily apply to the people who are purchasing during the Black Friday sale just to get the extra GC, rather this post is made specifically considering the people who purchase during the sale to get the bonus items included in the GC package. For many people who spend during this promotion, the decors are the goal, not the bonus, and this is where the issues arise.

I hope that this is related enough to Wolvden's gameplay/features to make a suggestion post about it. Since it involves Wolvden items and decors, and is the only way to obtain some decors, I think it would fall under the category of a "feature" used to obtain certain items.

TLDR; For people trying to get exclusive items, the current Black Friday sale item bonuses act just like a gacha game, with some items having much higher value than others. I would like this level of RNG to be removed from purchases involving real-world money by only including items of equal value, guaranteeing certain items, or getting rid of the RNG completely.

The Problems

Stark Contrast in Bonuses

Not every person who makes a purchase from this promotion will receive the same value for their money.

The prize "pools" which items are pulled from in each tier of this promotion contain items with drastically different values. This is especially evident in 2021's Black Friday promotion with the introduction of the Total Shuffle in the applicator pool. One Total Shuffle can be purchased at any time for 30 GC from the Grove. At the time of writing this, every other applicator in that pool is a limited-time applicator obtainable only through events, and none of them are valued at less than 65 GC in the Trading Center.

Another example of this is clear with the $25+ purchases with the "Grove pool" and the "Decor/background pool" being combined. Of the 15 items included in this combined pool a third of them are worth 10 GC or less and can be purchased at any time from the Grove, while the rest of the items can only be obtained on three days out of the year and are significantly harder to find.

From these observations of value disparities, the contrast between two potential buyers' "hauls" is made very clear. While one person could spend $50 and get 253 GC, an applicator valued at 100 GC, and decors also valued at at least 25 GC each, another buyer could spend $50 and get 253 GC, an applicator valued at 30 GC, and Grove items whose total value doesn't surpass 16 GC. That's a difference of about 200 GC in value of the items obtained from this purchase. And all that the second buyer did to deserve this was get unlucky with their purchase. This, of course, is an extreme example, but is definitely possible within the realms of RNG.

At this point, the second buyer in the example above may feel that they could have done better with this purchase. I will touch on this in my next point.

"Winning" the Black Friday Promotion, and the Gambling Encouraged With It

It's clear to me that the disparity between the values of these items has created a "win condition" for the Black Friday promotion. The ideal purchase will provide the player with the highest value items from each of the prize pools. If someone buys the $50 pack and receives a Total Shuffle and 4 Grove items, it's likely that they will feel like the purchase failed.

Sure, even a purchase that rewards the lowest value items will still provide a little bit extra GC. However, not everyone who spends during this promotion is doing it for the GC. I take into consideration the account of at least one person who made a purchase during this promotion with the sole intent of obtaining some of the beautiful new decors. To their disappointment, their purchase did not reward them any of the new decors, and they were left with GC that will just be saved and items which may never be used.

This "fail condition" has sparked one of my biggest worries with the Black Friday promotion. If someone "fails" their first purchase, they may want to keep buying and buying until they get the items that they do want. This is great for the developers -- I am happy that they are getting money from this practice, as they do deserve it. However, this has reduced the Black Friday promotion to a gacha game -- a system that exploits partial reinforcement and the fear of missing out.

Imagine yourself in the place of a dedicated Wolvden player. You have been playing for about a year now and you have built up a good hoard -- you have a good amount of GC saved. You really like the new decors from the Black Friday promotion. You don't really have any reason to buy GC, but since you have some money to spare, you decide to spend $25 GC to try your chances at the new decors. However, after your purchase, you do not get any of these decors. You are sad and disappointed. You figure, "I guess I can spend another $25, it's not that big of a deal". So, you buy another pack of GC and you still do not get any of the new decors that you wanted so badly. In an extreme situation, you may spend $25 again, and again, and again, until you get the item that you want, until you've spent well out of your means and regret it completely. This can work along with the fallacy of the maturity of choices, wherein a buyer may believe they are more likely to obtain a certain outcome the more times they do not receive that outcome. There is no indication that this is actually the case in the Black Friday promotion. If a buyer does not get the Red Wolf decor after 3 purchases, there is nothing to indicate that their chance of getting a Red Wolf decor is more likely after those 3 purchases, so they will keep spending with no guarantee that their goal of getting the Red Wolf is any closer.

This formula leads to many buyers being disappointed with their purchases, or not purchasing at all out of fear that they will be disappointed.

If you want as many people to buy a product as possible, you should incentivize this product by guaranteeing items which cannot be obtained through any other means. You should not create an environment where people avoid purchasing your product out of fear that they will be disappointed with the benefits, that spending will not be worth it, or they will get less value for their money as other players did.

The Fixes

I have a few ideas in mind that could make this Black Friday promotion more fair to every buyer, and I have sorted them in order of how beneficial I think the fix would be, based mostly on buyer satisfaction and moral consequence.

A Good Option

Remove the Grove items from the prize pools altogether.

With this idea, the prizes for each purchase would look like this:

40 GC → 44 GC
110 GC → 121 GC + 2 items from the Black Friday pool!
230 GC → 253 GC + 4 items from the Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool!
370 GC → 407 GC + 6 items from the Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool!
500 GC → 550 GC + 8 items from the Black Friday pool + 2 items from the new applicator pool!

The applicator pool will no longer include the Total Shuffle, only applicators which are obtained through limited events. Grove items will not be included in any of the bonuses.

Downsides of this option include the fact that the $10 purchase no longer provides a bonus, so players must spend at least $25 in order to obtain one of the Black Friday items. This will also decrease the future value of these items for trading.

However, this option will help fix the problem of the contrasting values between prizes. With this option, every buyer spending $25+ will get an exclusive decor. While their value may lessen a bit with this option, and throughout the multiple years of the promotion, this will still guarantee that a unique item will be obtained, rather than an item that can be purchased at any time. The decors will be valued at least higher than 3 GC, the current value of two of the Grove pool items.

With this option, buyers will feel like they got something useful from their purchase bonus -- something which cannot be obtained outside of the promotion (except for through trading). They will be less likely to feel like their purchase was a failure because they got a useless item, and they may be more likely to spend again because they know that they will be able to get one of the exclusive Black Friday items from their purchase. They won't be as worried going into the purchase, as there is not a way the purchase can "fail". The issue of partial reinforcement prevalent in gacha games and gambling is negated.

A Better Option

Guarantee at least one decor/background with every qualifying purchase.

With this idea, the prizes for each purchase would look like this:

40 GC → 44 GC + 1 item from the Grove pool!
110 GC → 121 GC + 1 item from the Grove pool + 1 item from the Black Friday pool!
230 GC → 253 GC + 2 items from the Grove pool + 2 items from Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool!
370 GC → 407 GC + 3 items from the Grove pool + 3 items from Black Friday pool + 1 item from the new applicator pool!
500 GC → 550 GC + 4 items from the Grove pool + 4 items from Black Friday pool + 2 items from the new applicator pool!

With this option, Total Shuffle is not necessarily removed from the applicator pool, but removing it would still be a good idea for sake of bonus values. This option will keep the Grove pool and the Black Friday pool completely separate. Every purchase of $25+ will be guaranteed a Black Friday item, and a Grove item. The amount of items obtained will be the same as it is right now, and the items allocated could even be the same as the current system. However, this will guarantee at least one exclusive Black Friday item with every qualifying purchase.

The drawbacks of this option include one listed for the previous option -- the values of these items will be decreased because more of them will be distributed. Once again, though, the benefits are exactly the same. Buyers will feel satisfied with their purchase because they got an exclusive item. There is no longer a chance that buyers could get 4 Grove items and no decors. The amount of items that each tier is given is the same, but there is no longer a "fail" condition for each prize pool because the items in each pool are valued at about the same.

The Best Option

Get rid of the RNG system completely.

This option would require a complete overhaul of the Black Friday promotion system, but I think it would be a very welcome one.

My proposal for this overhaul would outline the bonuses of each purchase as below.

There are three total item pools -- one for Grove items, one for Black Friday-exclusive items, and one for applicators. Every purchase allows buyers to select exactly which item(s) they want from the pools, and the more money they spend in one purchase, the more items they can pick and the more pools they have access to.

A breakdown for each purchase could be as follows:

40 GC → 44 GC + Pick 1 item from the Grove pool!
110 GC → 121 GC + Pick 1 item from the Grove pool + Pick 1 item from the Black Friday pool!
230 GC → 253 GC + Pick 2 items from the Grove pool + Pick 2 items from Black Friday pool + Pick 1 item from the new applicator pool!
370 GC → 407 GC + Pick 3 items from the Grove pool + Pick 3 items from Black Friday pool + Pick 1 item from the new applicator pool!
500 GC → 550 GC + Pick 4 items from the Grove pool + Pick 4 items from Black Friday pool + Pick 2 items from the new applicator pool!

This is the exact same allocation of items as is outlined in the previous option, with the only difference being that buyers get to choose exactly which item they want from each pool. For a $10 purchase, a buyer can choose which Grove item they would like as their bonus. So, they could select an Instant Pup Delivery because they know that they will use it. They will not be randomly assigned a Jellyfish which they will never use because they don't like immortalizing their wolves. For someone who just has their eye on one specific decor, they can purchase one pack and not have to waste additional money getting other items they will never use.

Benefits to this system include the fact that this is no longer a gacha/gamble. Players can make a purchase satisfied knowing that they will get exactly what they want from said purchase. They will not be disappointed by their purchase because they got a low-value item or an item they will never use. They will get to pick exactly which item will serve them the most use. There is no longer the issue of partial reinforcement. Buyers will not be roped into a spending spree because they haven't gotten the one item they wanted from the prize pool.

The biggest downside is the fact that buyers will not repeatedly make purchases in order to get lucky with the item that they're looking for, meaning less money is going to the developers. I imagine this system was created to maximize profits, and overhauling it like this would interrupt that influx of money. However, with the format explained above, buyers are only guaranteed to get all four Black Friday items if they spend at least $100. If they're missing items from the previous years, they'll have to spend more than this. If people missed an applicator from a certain event, being able to purchase it with money and guaranteeing that they'll get it from the purchase would encourage them to spend. Factoring in the people who didn't make a purchase this year because of the randomness, I don't think the loss of profits would be too detrimental. Besides, there are times when moral consequence and respect for your customers should be taken into more consideration than sheer profit.

In addition to the previous point, fewer Black Friday items may end up in the Trading Center because people will only be getting the items that they want, so they do not have to sell the items they do not want. These items could still be sold by people who don't care too much for them and just spent money for the GC.

If developers are worried that this would cause a significant loss of profits, they could consider restricting items behind certain pay tiers. For example, only people who spend $100 could get a rare background or decoration, encouraging people to spend those $100 to get it.

Overall, I think that this system would be the most beneficial to consumer satisfaction and would bring the system away from the "gacha" format completely.

Conclusion

My hope is that, in the future, the developers will pull the Black Friday promotion away from the vicious "gacha" format, even if just a little bit. The promotion should be fair to all buyers no matter how lucky they are.

I also want to reiterate that these concerns are primarily focused on people who spend during the promotion to get the exclusive items which are not available any other time throughout the year. It could be argued that since they are just a bonus and the buyer is not paying any extra for them, there is no reason to get rid of the randomness, however this does not excuse the gross practice of the "gacha" format. For many people who spend during this promotion, the decors are the goal, not the bonus. Many people have and will fall into the trap of spending extra money to get items handed to them randomly, and this is never a morally just practice, especially in a game with minors.

I would love to hear any additional issues with the system that people can think of, or arguments for the issues that I've seen or the fixes I've proposed. I write this suggestion out of a desire to support the developers of a game I love playing, but a disgust of these sorts of monetary practices in video games in general.

Mel 🏜️
#201

Posted 2021-11-27 08:24:35

#570089

I support this suggestion, the RNG is one of the reasons I am not very interested in trying out a purchase.

I like the last option the best, with a small caveat. If someone only has $25 they can spend, but they really wanted the Eurasian Wolf (or something else higher up) they still may be disappointed. It would also give more value to the items higher in the tier, so they would be less likely to be able to trade their Red Wolf (or whatever they received on their tier) for the item they really wanted. I would think being able to choose what they want out of the entire pool of items (grove and black friday) would be nice--why make some rarer than others by making them more expensive to get? Players are still going to be limited to a certain number of items that they get as bonuses, so there will still be reasons to buy higher tiers. Also, the applicators could still be attached to the tiers over a certain amount.
So, maybe what I am trying to say is keep Wolvden's tiers/packages but allow players to pick the items out of those tiers/packages that they receive?

Sepulchre
#33572

Posted 2021-11-27 08:40:53

#570093

Agreed.
I don't think RNG element has a place for when dealing with real life money transactions. I think when dealing with real money the consumer should know exactly what they are getting when buying something.
Same thing with games and loot-boxes.

Tsaari
#533

Posted 2021-11-27 09:15:00

#570111

Fully support! I understand why they did what we have now; to try and raise money for continued development. But I think what we have now can definitely be improved :/ Introducing a gambling-ish aspect using real money in this type of game seems a bit... Wrong.

FIRMWARE 💿⚡
#2065

Posted 2021-11-27 10:30:40 (edited)

#570166

I fully support this.

I was under the impression that you would get 50/50 grove items and Black Friday exclusive items, since that's what I received, but knowing that it isn't makes the gambling aspect all the more insidious. I bought GC during Black Friday just for the items and was lucky to get two decors, but I bought the $50 option for the applicator and ended up with a Shuffle. If I had wanted the Shuffle, I would have just bought it with the GC I received. It definitely doesn't feel like a "special item".

I was tempted to reduce my budget for other things like food, subscriptions, etc, and buy another $50 worth of GC (that I don't need) because this happened to be my birthday present to myself. Since this is usually a depressing time of year for me, the disappointment really got to me. I'm still tempted.

I get not everyone will feel this way, but it really isn't all that uncommon, and it gets to me even more because vulnerable groups are statistically more likely to fall for this kind of marketing tactic. (I.e. People with ADHD/ADD, clinical depression, addictions, PTSD, personality disorders, learning difficulties, etc).

I've even made a suggestion specific to the applicator pool, and I've addressed some of my concerns here: link.

VagueShapes
#828

Posted 2021-11-27 15:16:46

#570350

Fully Support. I am very much a pay to play player, I'm not ashamed of it. I like putting money aside for the games I like and supporting them through in game purchases.

And though the randomized things are.. fun. I'd MUCH rather this system where we can actually choose what we're getting. Even though I'm very PTP I still want to get stuff I like and not random items I would mostly likely end up selling anyways. I want something I'd use!

My first pull from the Black Friday event went very well luckily, but I'd still rather choose and not have to gamble as then I feel like I've really wasted that money instead of investing it into something I really wanted.

When I pay for GC I'm getting what I want. I know what I'm getting. Should be the same for the items, we should know what we're getting when picking the prices we want to spend on the game.

† Salem Trials †
#6510

Posted 2021-11-27 17:52:07

#570450

@ Sepulchre

That's a super valid suggestion which I definitely agree with! I've edited my original post to amend that last option a bit more -- there could be set pools and spending more money gives you the opportunity to select more items in each pool as well as have access to more pools. I've also added some clarifying sentences to my ~~already too long~~ post to hopefully make my concerns a little bit clearer.

Mel 🏜️
#201

Posted 2021-11-28 01:17:48 (edited)

#570617

as someone who can easily (and have before) fall into bad luck gambling, I fully support the last option of being able to pick the items you want.

"Imagine yourself in the place of a dedicated Wolvden player. You have been playing for about a year now and you have built up a good hoard -- you have a good amount of GC saved. You really like the new decors from the Black Friday promotion..."
this entire continued section outlines my exact reasons for not buying anything from the black friday sale. I know I won't get what I want and I know I can easily fall back on spending more than I can actually afford.

I had some spare money saved knowing the sale for the exclusive decor would come, I was really excited to finally be able to buy some of the decors! but I had no idea it would be up to RNG. this lead me to being very disappointed not spend anything at all. so yes; there are definitely people like me who would love to give the devs money and are only looking for the exclusives specifically, but got completely turned away when seeing the RNG only aspect.

TLDR; I would love to support the devs by buying exclusives at whatever price to get the item I wanted, but I refuse to do so when it heavily relies on RNG.

Fella
#31536

Posted 2021-11-28 09:51:04 (edited)

#570733

I thought for a while and got a few notes:

You suggest Total Shuffle removal due to disparity between this item and event base apps. After the last Lunar event was over, I set up a trade looking for turquoise base app offering 10000 SC and 3 minutes later I had it in my hoard. I bought the app for equivalent of 30 GC like it was a bargain. I think it'd be unlikely to get Total Shuffle for less than 30 GC from other players because there's no other source of getting this item than Grove. The disparity is subjective, in my opinion. Also, future Black Fridays means more event apps released means more of them included into the pool means Total Shuffle less likely to be drawn from the pool. Isn't decreased chance satisfying enough? What about players, especially breeders of natural wolves, who may dislike event apps (due to unnatural colours) and would like Total Shuffle the most?

What would be the new prices of event items if there was less RNG or the pool contained only decors? Wouldn't the prices for newest decors be decreased below the average? On the first days of the event I have counted that if you buy 110+ GC packages, you get 100% bonus items in value. Meaning that buying 230 GC package you get around 230 GC worth of items by average. If you remove the RNG or guarantee to draw the newest decor, the decor can drop in value and instead of 100 GC worth newest decor you might end up with 25 GC worth newest decor because when you sell the newest decor in the TC, you gotta compete with other traders who also sell the newest decor they intended to buy from Black Friday event without being affected by RNG. From current system when you can be unlucky and get 55 GC worth of items or lucky and get 325 GC worth of times to a system where you're guaranteed to get 160 GC worth of items. Instead of getting 230 GC worth of items maybe less maybe more you guarantee 160 GC and be okay because everywolf else gets the same value?

You mentioned instances of players being unlucky and purchasing packages for certain item even with good amount of GC saved and no reason to purchase some more. However, every item from Black Friday event can be traded between players. Why not to spend the saved GC to buy desired decor from another player? If you decide to purchase several packages to get desired decor but fail to do so, wouldn't you use the GC you purchased to buy the desired decor? The more you "fail", the more GC you have to buy the decor and the more likely you are to have another decor which you can exchange for the desired one.

Dżanek
#24018

Posted 2021-11-28 10:40:29

#570743

Dżanek, I would argue that they are bad items to include even if all of the applicators were worth 30GC or less, and the event decorations worth less than 5GC. I'm not sure how to word this, but I'll try.
You were very lucky to find someone to buy from, it's not a common occurrence. If you offered 30GC you probably wouldn't have got it, because bulk SC is harder to get than bulk GC.
Nobody sells Total Shuffles for less than their Grove price on the TC, because if they buy one they either use it or get a refund. You can't get a refund on the item rewards from Black Friday.
The Total Shuffle isn't a base applicator.
Getting a bad item from a 1 in 20 chance would feel just as bad, if not worse, than getting a bad item from a 1 in 8 chance.
The other applicators are "special items" because they are from events.
Most of the other applicators aren't even available during the events, unless there is a real-life lunar event, because they are retired.
Grove items are unlimited, but there are only as many event applicators as people who have played to buy/earn them
There are only as many decorations and backgrounds as lucky people managed to get from their purchases.
There might not even be enough for everyone to purchase them from the TC. People who can't afford to buy GC also want to purchase them from players who can, and people who bought GC this weekend did it for the rewards so they probably want to keep at least some of their items.

The Total Shuffle can also make your wolves very unnatural-looking, like giving them bright saturated red or yellow markings, clashing colours, or dog and fox inspired marking shapes. I breed semi-natural wolves, but the Shuffle is still a novelty item that is less useful to me than a base applicator. I could make a losna, clover, or moss look semi-natural with my purchased GC and use that wolf to make money through studding or breeding. If I use the Shuffle on a nice NBW I might have to get rid of every marking and start again anyway.