Same Sex Breeding Item
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Posted 2022-03-02 10:52:16
You'd also have to think about it, most the game isnt realistic tho, we have literal green, blue, purple, red, etc wolves-- |
 xofrnk [INACTIVE] #10923 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 10:53:34 (edited)
Edit: Actually, it doesn't look like you fully read the first post re: which female would get pregnant (the answer is that none of them would get pregnant, for clarification)! I'd start there ^^ |
 Ghost #49933 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 11:06:44 (edited)
It's true that this is impossible in the natural world, but modern medicine can achieve this-- exactly like the sex change feature the game already has. Hell same-sex pair litters, I argue, are more realistic than the genetics-changing applicators in the game. Modern medicine can't even permanently tailor our genes that significantly once we've been born with them, but it's a feature in the game. So while I haven't voted yet because I'm still not convinced on the family trees, I don't feel that realism holds up well as a criticism for the suggestion. The concerns about who gets pregnant, however, I think I have possible solutions for! On the question of which female falls pregnant, perhaps it would be 50/50 or you would get to pick. OR maybe instead of an item, you would go to Gene the bat or Herbert the bear, and they would perform a "ritual" (basically an engineered in-vitro fertilization) for which you'd select a female to carry the litter. The female would need to be in heat (or at least not on a breeding cooldown?) in order to be impregnated. On the question about how males would get pregnant, perhaps when you do the ritual for male pairings you need to select a surrogate female, who would not be a biological parent to the litter but would gestate and wean them. This female would also need to be in heat/not on cooldown. c: |
 BeastOfTheyRoad #52596 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 11:11:33 (edited)
I think it's a good idea. Even if it was limited, such as one breeding per pair or something, it would give a good opportunity for users with lore-heavy packs! Not to mention gay folks like myself who just want lil lesbian wolves with lil puppies because why not! edit because I just saw Beast's post: I think, at least according to the op, no wolves would "get pregnant" the litter would just be delivered. The only thing is they'd probably have to be delivered at 3 months (or…. whenever puppies are weaned) |
Hawkins #11604 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 11:17:17
I do still stand by my puppy delivery idea, for the sake of simplicity. I think it would be easier to code and just easier to manage in general ^^ @Hawkins - I agree that it feels biased. Why is this "too much" when other, less realistic, features are just fine? |
Ghost #49933 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 11:33:27
I didn't notice that the OP suggested creating fully-weaned pups. Personally, I think it would be better to have one of the pair get pregnant, because pregnancy/weaning is such a big part of the game mechanics. (Either you wait 4 ROs to see the pups or use an ibf, then you have to to feed/play the nursing parent to raise the pups' survival level, and you can't sell/enclave the pups until they wean. Being able to bypass all of this is a bit too much.) I think it makes sense that you'd get to pick which of the parents would be the nursing parent. Preggo males are fine because this is not a realistic element in the first place. |
 Lionel #34199 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 11:40:39 (edited)
Unfair to have puppies born right at weaning age, because their time spent as puppies would be half that of other puppies. Thus they'd have an advantage in survival but also their lives are cut shorter by 5 rollovers (puppies wean at 2.5 months, 5 rollovers). Not only that but you wouldn't have to bother with nesting and waiting for gestation, which means the item MUST cost more than an instant birth feather & a nesting mat, so well above 5gc. And like that's expensive,, I find it no problem to go rack up 5gc in a few days if I need it but I know it's not that simple for every player. The thing would need to be like 10-15gc and racking up that much is just no small feat. You would need to pay quite a bit to compensate for the nesting, IBF, pup survival, and sex change that would come with doing an equivalent M/F pairing, no? TLDR I think an item would be super expensive but an in-vitro mechanic could be more accessible. That's my case basically in favor of my IVF + gestation mechanic versus the instantaneous item c: edit because I was typing before seeing the reply: @Lionel ^^^^^^^^^^^ |
BeastOfTheyRoad #52596 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 12:04:19
I could go either way on whether or not a male gets pregnant, I agree that it's not a realism issue even though I'm still concerned about family trees. Rn I prefer my "select a surrogate" idea because (1) it's cute lol I think it's cute and (2) if males can get pregnant it might devalue sex changers somewhat. ... although maybe not by much, because studs/BMs can't impregnate another male so there's still value in sex-changing a male so that you can breed him with studs. I say this coupled with the suggestion for tailoring pronouns and gendered language so that if you do have to sex-change a wolf you don't have to also change its gender! I wonder if this would create a market for surrogates? Like "pay me x amount and I'll loan you my wolf to be a surrogate for your M/M litter, just give it back when the puppies are weaned"? |
BeastOfTheyRoad #52596 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 12:15:58
I think you both make really good points! I honestly didn't consider survival rate and pup age, but that's a really important part of the game mechanics. What if we did a combination of everyone's ideas? The puppies are delivered, to avoid people complaining about male wolves getting pregnant, but you still have to wait the normal pregnancy period. Both wolves in the pair get the "pregnant" heart, but when you hover over it it says "Pup Delivery", and their page says "This wolf is waiting for pup delivery" instead of "this wolf is pregnant". I think this should be standardized for both male and female couples, just for ease of understanding and coding. For female couples, you pick one of the wolves in the pair to nurse the puppies beforehand. They arrive like any other puppies, and have the same nursing mechanic as normal pups. This wolf would be marked as the "mother" in the game's coding, so I don't think it would be too different from what we currently have? She is the one you would have to nest. For male couples, you pick a female wolf in your pack to nurse the pups beforehand. This is also realistic - females in wild wolf packs will often nurse puppies that aren't their own. She's the one you would have to nest, before the pups are delivered (she needs a place to nurse them). She can still get pregnant with her own puppies along her normal heat cycle (so it doesn't unfairly debuff your surrogate mother), but the pup's survival would be tied to her. It wouldn't be too complex, it would be fairly realistic, and it takes into account the pup survival, nesting, and weaning mechanics. We also wouldn't need an expensive grove item to make this fair to everyone, though it could still be a grove item to keep with the idea that most of the supernatural items are from the grove. I do also like BeastOfTheyRoad's "ritual" idea - that way it wouldn't feel like the game is punishing you for have same sex pairings. |
Ghost #49933 |
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Posted 2022-03-02 12:29:10 (edited)
I feel iffy, though, about the pregnancy heart being on both wolves in a pairing. The heart tells me actually which wolf is pregnant, which wolves I need to make sure are nested, which helps remind me to nest them in time. Plus with M/Ms would you have 3 wolves with the heart, then? 1 for each male and 1 for the wet nurse? Maybe a different symbol altogether could be used for expecting same-sex pairs & the wet nurses, or even just for the nurses? That way you could see the symbol and plan ahead for having those wolves begin nursing, but it wouldn't confuse you with pregnant wolves you need to make sure are nested :0c ... OOH MY GOD WAIT what if we had a whole ROLE for the wet nurse? Could be called wet nurse or nanny or something, must be female, and could be the wet nurse for F/F maybe even M/F pair puppies too! 
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BeastOfTheyRoad #52596 |