Same Sex Breeding Item
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Posted 2022-04-22 12:49:29
As well as would they be able to have a male child? How? If it is a Lesbian couple than that is not possible, cause there is no male in the breeding process. The same thing applys to a gay couple. |
 NazgulWitchKing #61352 |
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Posted 2022-04-22 12:54:39 (edited)
Because this game doesn't have to be 100% realistic, I don't think the gender of the parents should have an impact on the puppies. They're magically being delivered via stork, after all! |
 Ghost #49933 |
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Posted 2022-04-22 17:12:04
Please stay on topic with what the original post was intending. While opposing suggestions is allowed, it must be respectful, follow Wolvden's rules, and cannot derail the topic.
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Moderator
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Posted 2022-04-23 14:58:19 (edited)
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 Closed Account #13864 |
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Posted 2022-05-01 02:30:39 (edited)
Issues/Concerns: How would the family lineage be depicted? How would Pup Genders be depicted? Females are xx and male are xy so it's only fair if females couples can only produce female pups but would that devalue the Great tit item. It would be unreal if both male and female same sex couples could produce any gender at least on the female side. Could this be taken advantage of? Also it would be so unrealistic if 2 females xx produced a male pup I know it's via stork but it will still have the females genetics so it's only fair to have some boundary that are realistic in a sense. Pricing? For this this work and not be taken advantage of the pricing would be gc in the grove and be a reasonable price? Maybe 6-8gc? Code breaking? Could this in any way and how break coding for family pages and cause issues from what you can think of? Could anyone take advantage of this in any way shape or form? I feel like a advantage issue this could lead is the devalue of certain items like the Great tit and the sex changer if the price of the item isn't high But on the side note having an entire pack of females made by females only producing female would be funny but I still feel like there would be underlying issues. -good luck with your suggestion 👍 and have a nice day |
 ⛧🖤 ꫝꪖᦔꪊక𓆏 Mad Hatter🕷 #1428 |
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Posted 2022-05-01 20:18:24
If we're getting into the nitty gritty of sex chromosomes, then you're ignoring the fact that there are cis women in the real world that have XY chromosomes. There are likewise cis men that have XX chromosomes. This is a documented thing that happens in the real world. If the game suddenly cares about the chromosomes of the parents (even though thus far it has not been an aspect of gameplay), wouldn't you agree that every wolf should be assigned a set of sex chromosomes at birth, with XX males and XY females being a rare possibility? And thus shouldn't they have puppies with the corresponding sexes relating to those chromosomes? If we care so much about the chromosomes, that's the only way to make the game realistic. Ignoring the diversity of real life chromosomes, why is your boundary with the specific chromosomes of these puppies, but not with altering the very genetic base code of a wolf? Why are you okay with the sex changer item, that gives a wolf who would previously have XX chromosomes XY chromosomes, and vice versa? If chromosome consistency is your hard boundary, would you not agree that a wolf that was female (and presumably had XX chromosomes) and was sex changed to male should continue to have XX chromosomes, and should be unable to have male puppies? These are genuine questions and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts! Personally I think that the chromosomes shouldn't matter at all, because their addition would add little to the game outside of unneeded complexity. How would it mess up the family tree? If the languange was changed to be gender neutral, how would it have a tangible effect? I understand your concern about the coding, but the complexity of implementing this completely relies on how the code is currently set up. Regardless, it's not impossible, though of course I recognize that this is a big ask! If people are actually concerned about it, I'd be happy to spitball algorithm ideas on how to deal with coding the family tree. It would have no effect on the value of the great tit item, because the pups' genders would not be affected with the suggestion I have presented. The sex changer item has value outside of "having puppies", but we already agreed that this should cost around the same price, or more if necessary. |
Ghost #49933 |
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Posted 2022-05-01 20:45:37 (edited)
As for the sex changer it is a magical based item yes but it completely changes the sex of the wolf so the wolf would just be the other gender with it new gender chromosones, as for the rest of boundarys of genetic modification it is a game and I find groove items to be more cosmetic/ appearance based with Rmas etc, with similarities of how irl there is plastic surgery, hair dye, cloth styles and people who change their gender. which makes sense and that a game does have to have items and having cosmetic/ appearance changing items is actually not too boundary breaking of realism and makes for great premium currency buying etc from a game business perspective. I am rambling on now but Obviously it is a game it doesn't have to have all the nity gritty Specfic complexity's ideas and I would suggest maybe the 3gc would be averagely fair if gender is randomized just so it's not too much of a common thing since it would be a very unique pup delivery system and it be mostly for lore anyways but very doable for major lore packs" maybe even just 2gc since it's randomized genders anyways and that allowed a even gc sink with ease to get since gc as become more expensive in the tc. But I have a question now what if it were to be gender specific like females only having female pups and male only having male that were not chromosomes specific tho as a unique question and would they be allowed effect by the red cock or not and how would you view your opinion upon that and prices would obviously have to be different in this scenario. (Ps also I like your research I think your really great at writing and it makes this discussion a lot better to understand) 👍 have a nice day |
⛧🖤 ꫝꪖᦔꪊక𓆏 Mad Hatter🕷 #1428 |
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Posted 2022-05-01 22:42:25
Personally, it wouldn't bother me if a same-sex breeding item were to ignore that feature and have all pups with a 50/50 chance of being male or female, because Wolvden breeding is already genetically unrealistic in many ways. (Examples: Albino breeding and mutation/carrier pass rates are quite unrealistic [which does bother some people, but not me], as well as mark passing [I've heard people discussing inheritance of marking/coloration patterns in horses and cats, and it's fascinating but bears no resemblance to Wolvden's system at all]). The question of what to do with the family page is more interesting. Using one of my wolves as example:  For the offspring, the only needed change would be to substitute "Other Parent" for "Father." You can see it already works like this for adopted offspring, so it shouldn't be an issue. As for the family tree, I can think of three changes that would need to be made: (1) In the case of a m/m couple, instead of having a "Paternal Family Tree" and a "Maternal Family Tree," both headers could read "Paternal Family Tree." Likewise, for a f/f couple you'd have "Maternal Family Tree" for both. All other headings (Grandparents, Great Grandparents, and so on) are gender-neutral, so no change would be required. (2) In the family tree itself, sex markers and the red/blue lines would need to be changed to reflect the wolves' actual sex:  (3) Finally, in the case of a same-sex couple, which wolf would be listed on top? For consistency/simplicity, maybe the wolf with the smaller ID number is always the one listed on top. None of these changes seem like they'd cause any trouble on the user-end. They're visually minor and don't impact the family tree's readability. My only concern would be that it might be difficult to code since the current system is set up to have mother + father for every node. |
 Lionel #34199 |
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Posted 2022-05-02 05:26:38 (edited)
Also @Ghost, I don't think they meant anything about gender and sex IRL so much as the canonical sexes of the wolves, E.g. I could have an XX girl and XX guy pair bond, but since they're both XX (called "female" in-game), they'd still be facing the logistical oversight for having XY puppies. I think the chromosome consideration makes sense, but if it were implemented as a factor in same sex breedings, I'd feel like it's too nitpicky. Especially since it would devalue the Great Tit item, I feel like it could be overlooked for the sake of the game's market. (Edited to respond to above posts) |
 BeastOfTheyRoad #52596 |
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Posted 2022-05-04 20:34:53
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Atlantic #63263 |