Same Sex Breeding Item
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Posted 2022-06-23 15:48:21 (edited)
I'm going to address this paragraph by paragraph, but I'll try to keep myself from being too wordy (she lied) 1. Complexity: I understand your worry (Lioden was a little complex for me as well, though I feel like most of that comes from it being an older website with a steady stream of new content (which is FANTASTIC and just shows how amazing and dedicated the devs are)), but I don't think the added complexity of this single item will create any strain for new players - frankly it's not For new players. That's like saying the Aging Crystal adds too much complexity, because it's not explained in detail in the tutorial, or that the introduction of pairbonds was too complex. It's something for more experienced players to utilize once they're used to the site – it's a bonus, not a requirement, and absolutely would not be needed to play the game successfully! I also want to protest to your comment that "there [are] alternatives already implemented in the game" – I completely disagree, but I'll address that further later (under paragraph #5)! Lastly, the devs can absolutely reject whatever idea they want, whether or not their reasoning is "logical" or if it contradicts another new feature they've already added. They're not beholden to the userbase, and new features are completely at their discretion. 2. Coding: In the absolute nicest way possible, if you know nothing about coding why do you think you… would know the coding issues they would run into? This is all just speculation based on you – by your own admission – not knowing anything about how web design works haha. I think we should leave any discussion on why it may or may not be too complex up to the devs themselves. I was a computer science major in college, I currently work in marketing, and one of my jobs is managing a company's website. Even with my greater knowledge base in both software programming and web-design, I still wouldn't presume to know how the devs currently have the website set up and, subsequently, the steps they could take to make this happen or how difficult it would be. It could be really simple, if they have the site set up in a certain way, or it could require a complete rework if they have it set up another way. My last comment here is that most updates to a website are just adding new sets of coding that are compatible with the old coding, so it's not like that's Insanely Hard in itself. 3. The number of breedings: I think this was just a misunderstanding! When I said, in the first post, that this item could be used for one same sex pairbond breeding, I meant that one item would act as a single breeding. I did not mean that each pairbond could only get one breeding full stop, even if you used the item multiple times. I do not want each pairbond to only be able to breed once – I can't see a good reason for that outside of punishing same sex couples for being same sex couples. We were also thinking this item should cost ~5GC! Your alternative options: 4. Scrying stone update: I agree that an update to the scrying stone would be great, and I'd love to be able to scry same sex pairs for multiple reasons! I disagree with everything else you said here, though. I can also pretend I have multiple dust eyed, NBW, T3, triple panda wolves and put them in my lore. That… doesn't mean I have them? The wolves have to be in the game to be a part of the game, otherwise that's just making an original character based on your wolvden wolves. 5. Adoption: To reiterate what I said in my first post, I think adoption is a great feature. However, it doesn't actually accomplish a lot of what people enjoy in this game. You could also buy whatever puppy you want from the trading center and write that in as your wolf's kid in your lore, but that doesn't affect the gameplay aspects. Likewise, sometimes you don't want to browse and choose exactly what you want? I personally like how random the puppies can be, and I end up falling in love with the looks of a pup I never expected to just because it's the kid of one of my other beloved wolves. We want this item because genetics are important to a lot of players, including bases, markings, and stats. The odds of you adopting a puppy with markings from both your desired parents, with the eyes the right color, base, and the markings in the right slot, with its stat range possible from your pair, is very low. That would take obsessive searching through the enclave, and tbh may not even be possible. Lastly, the family tree is also important to many of us, and the "adopted puppy" section can get very cluttered very easily. Many people like browsing the enclave to adopt rare puppies, or pups to raise and chase, and any wanted adopted puppies can get lost in that swarm very easily. Like you said, a single pairbond can adopt a TON of pups in their lifetime. Alternatively, it's really easy to keep you wolf's biological offspring section clear of any unwanted pups. To address your side note about adoption, I think that's an incredibly bad faith reading of why we want this item. My reasoning for wanting biological pups from my same sex pair bonds is above, and it has nothing to do with the real life adopted children of real human people being "lesser". That's like me telling everyone with opposite sex wolf breedings to stop doing that, they should just be satisfied with adoption, they're treating adopted puppies as lesser! It's a weird double standard, don't you think? 6. Lore: We know that keeping one member of the pair as the opposite sex for breeding purposes is an option – that's what many of us have been doing this whole time! But sometimes your imagination isn't enough. Sometimes you want your wolves to not be misgendered by the game, to not feel the dysphoria of having the sex listed on their profile being different from their gender, to want everyone who sees your wolves to know that they are a queer couple, they exist, and they don't have to hide. It's fine if you don't understand that, but this is a sensitive topic for gay people, so try and see where we're coming from! It would be weird if wolvden included sexual dimorphism in the adult art, because (unlike lions) wolves don't have that. I would be extremely upset if it was added, as it would enforce an additional gender binary that's absolutely unneeded in this situation. I hope this answered your questions, alleviated some of your concerns, and let you know more of where we're coming from! c: Feel free to keep adding to the discussion - I've said it before but I'll say it again, I love talking about this as long as people are being productive and overall interacting in good faith! Edit: As always, Hawkins hit the nail on the head! I agree w everything they said, and also desperately want a pronoun toggle for my wolves haha Edit2: (lol sorry) @AngryTiger - I just looked at your profile, and your play-style is exactly the kind that this item would work best for? You only let NBWs into your pack, and don't adopt from the enclave or breed to studs, right? Can't you see why this item would be appealing to others who are playing this game with similar rules? ONE FINAL THOUGHT For everyone: I think it's really important that we're specific in our language. Gender and sex are two different concepts. You could have a different sex pairbond where both members are the same gender, and they can have puppies with our current system. You can also have a same sex pairbond where the members are different genders, and they would be unable to have puppies right now! That's why it's important that we specify same sex, because that is specifically what we're talking about. |
 Ghost #49933 |
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Posted 2022-06-23 17:54:47
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 Slothie #2938 |
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Posted 2022-08-24 11:41:51 (edited)
So I dont think it looks good that this is where the line would be drawn about being too unrealistic |
 Compy #2458 |
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Posted 2022-11-01 08:56:20
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 BarkingIntheDark #30485 |
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Posted 2022-11-01 22:34:40
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 possumproblem #71217 |
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Posted 2022-11-02 02:20:21
At first, a long while back I was quietly against the idea, thinking it would complicate family trees/be easily abusable as a mechanic, I saw this got bumped, and due to me being up faaarr too late I decided to do some actual reading, and uh, everything checks out lmao, seeing that the item will be exclusive to pairbonds specifically and also have cooldowns I don't really see a problem with it, this is a game about colorbomb wolves, horses appearing in the glacier, and fighting mythical beings, not to mention BLUE every end of the month is BLUE I can't get away from the BLUE Anyway, this game is hella unrealistic as is with tiny bits of realism for balance, but that's pretty much about it, if we can have gay jellyfish wolf and human hand wolf shopkeepers why not let same-sex pairs have bio kids |
 🐸AngyFrog🐸 #3122 |
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Posted 2023-04-15 01:36:26
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 Moona #114066 |
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Posted 2023-04-28 11:31:45
Basically where a cis male is pregnant So..... support. |
Readytest #120513 |
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Posted 2023-04-28 12:16:08 (edited)
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Timewaster #54523 |
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Posted 2023-04-28 12:20:27
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Ghost #49933 |