Don't introduce predictable craftable bases

Don't introduce predictable craftable bases
Posted 2022-05-14 16:51:31 (edited) #746131 Greetings! As of Development Update #18, a new craftable base has been available: Badger. I think a decent part of playerbase awaited the second craftable base for over a year and once it was released, they have enjoyed this new magnificent look on a wolf. However, what I've been expecting on top of this was that the next craftable base would refresh the economy such as the first craftable base used to accomplish. However, badger base was... too easy? Such as no challenge was set, everything that was needed to craft the new base was on our plates except for the recipe. Once the first recipes were found, the first badger bases were put on wolves on the day of the update with a NBW badger stud priced for 2 GC, which discouraged me from trying to get a badger wolf even though I had all the materials to have the base crafted. The introduction of the fox base in Development Update #3 affected Wolvden economy in the greatest way. No one was capable of obtaining all those materials alone so players were forming up groups and/or trading with other players offering generous amounts of cones for every single pelt, tail, claw and fang they needed. The expenses were huge but these just motivated to set decent prices for fox studs which attracted requests depleting stud slots within days, treating pups with respectable manner. I understand that the next craftable T3 base couldn't be as valuable as the fox one with the same measures being used - we've already had T3 based wolves walking around quite commonly - but the introduction of the badger base requiring less than players predicted turned out to be a flounder in terms of economy. Why was it predictable? Since Community Update #21 it was predicted that the next craftable base would be a badger base according to poll results mentioned in the notes and the archive: Having experienced how fox bases were made, some players who realized that badger pelts and skulls as well as mustelid claws and fangs were available hoarded them for 5 months, setting "Looking For" trades to buy these from other players. The remaining players could be willing to sell badger trophies for relatively cheap prices like any other trophies that had no use except for selling because they might've not read or recognized this spoiler mentioned above, which I could deduce from the following message: So when the badger base was implemented into the game, requiring only materials that were either predictable (Mustelid Claws, Mustelid Fangs, Badger Pelts, Fox Skull) in less amount than their fox counterparts or commonly stocked in hoard (Bones), those very well aware players could skip the race for the base and just find a way to craft it and apply on their wolves. I would advise the developers to stop publishing spoilers that would affect our gameplay prior the incoming update. Regarding that poll, it might be alright to ask us which animal-like base we would prefer but not by telling us it'd be the next craftable base. The question could be even tweaked to be a little mislead such as "Future raffle base inspiration?" and use the most chosen answer to make a craftable base - this way even less players could've associated the animal with its trophies. The reason why predictable bases such as the badger one shouldn't be introduced again in future updates - if the above reasons are not appealing enough to the developers - is that this implementation encourages promised based transactions which is against the spirit of Code of Conduct 2.6b. The players who already had all materials (after turning amusement parts into remnants) required to craft the badger base at the moment of the update, needed only one more thing - the recipe, which has been given randomly to players for fighting badgers. To have the applicator crafted, one has to acquire the recipe or have somewolf else with the recipe to craft it. Acquiring the recipe demanded luck or savings. As an infinite amount of items can be crafted once the recipe is learnt, one could offer crafting services by asking for materials and giving the crafted item in return demanding whatever payment even extremely cheap or none - this option sounds very inviting for those looking to have their applicators crafted. And there goes the promise based transaction: "give me materials first, I'll craft the item and send you back later." This can be avoided if the player crafting already has the crafted item so can just set up a trade offering the crafted item and asking for materials along with the payment. So one has to acquire the materials AND the recipe, craft the item and instead of using the applicator on a wolf, offer crafting services supported by the rules - in other words: not promise based. However, when your objective is to be an owner of the first badger wolf assuming you already had all the materials required to craft the badger base applicator, you most likely had to rely on promised based transactions provided by crafting services as the cheapest way to get the app first. You have to make a deal with the first honest crafting player to meet the objective and you'll most likely have to trust the first player ever who can be anywolf you haven't met before. The recipes can be given randomly to players fighting badgers with lead wolves at least level 10 - this can be you, this can be your friend, this can be somewolf who already has materials capable of offering crafting services without promise based transactions. But I believe this can mostly be a player struggling with food and amusement who will take the responsibility to accept materials from other players - assets that are worth much more than the crafting player's networth - convert the materials into the apps and gift the apps - the majority of what the crafting player has at the moment - back to senders. Do you believe the integrity of such transaction? Regarding the first fox base applicators, I wouldn't say these were exempt from promise based transactions (ekhm... refunded breedings...) but at least those could be carried on between friends and associates. Recipes fit between expensive materials when offering generously for them but if anywolf relied on crafting services - by the time all the other required materials were obtained, there were a lot of players offering crafting services so the most trustworthy one could be chosen. This is also a reason why next craftable base applicators shouldn't require common items that are stocked in hoards - that at the time of the update somewolf would have all of them and just had to rely on the first player offering crafting services to be the first owner of the base. Thank you for reading to this point.	Dżanek #24018

Posted 2022-05-14 16:51:31 (edited)

#746131

Greetings!

As of Development Update #18, a new craftable base has been available: Badger. I think a decent part of playerbase awaited the second craftable base for over a year and once it was released, they have enjoyed this new magnificent look on a wolf. However, what I've been expecting on top of this was that the next craftable base would refresh the economy such as the first craftable base used to accomplish.

However, badger base was... too easy? Such as no challenge was set, everything that was needed to craft the new base was on our plates except for the recipe. Once the first recipes were found, the first badger bases were put on wolves on the day of the update with a NBW badger stud priced for 2 GC, which discouraged me from trying to get a badger wolf even though I had all the materials to have the base crafted.

The introduction of the fox base in Development Update #3 affected Wolvden economy in the greatest way. No one was capable of obtaining all those materials alone so players were forming up groups and/or trading with other players offering generous amounts of cones for every single pelt, tail, claw and fang they needed. The expenses were huge but these just motivated to set decent prices for fox studs which attracted requests depleting stud slots within days, treating pups with respectable manner.

I understand that the next craftable T3 base couldn't be as valuable as the fox one with the same measures being used - we've already had T3 based wolves walking around quite commonly - but the introduction of the badger base requiring less than players predicted turned out to be a flounder in terms of economy. Why was it predictable?

Since Community Update #21 it was predicted that the next craftable base would be a badger base according to poll results mentioned in the notes and the archive:

Having experienced how fox bases were made, some players who realized that badger pelts and skulls as well as mustelid claws and fangs were available hoarded them for 5 months, setting "Looking For" trades to buy these from other players. The remaining players could be willing to sell badger trophies for relatively cheap prices like any other trophies that had no use except for selling because they might've not read or recognized this spoiler mentioned above, which I could deduce from the following message:

So when the badger base was implemented into the game, requiring only materials that were either predictable (Mustelid Claws, Mustelid Fangs, Badger Pelts, Fox Skull) in less amount than their fox counterparts or commonly stocked in hoard (Bones), those very well aware players could skip the race for the base and just find a way to craft it and apply on their wolves.

I would advise the developers to stop publishing spoilers that would affect our gameplay prior the incoming update. Regarding that poll, it might be alright to ask us which animal-like base we would prefer but not by telling us it'd be the next craftable base. The question could be even tweaked to be a little mislead such as "Future raffle base inspiration?" and use the most chosen answer to make a craftable base - this way even less players could've associated the animal with its trophies.

The reason why predictable bases such as the badger one shouldn't be introduced again in future updates - if the above reasons are not appealing enough to the developers - is that this implementation encourages promised based transactions which is against the spirit of Code of Conduct 2.6b.

The players who already had all materials (after turning amusement parts into remnants) required to craft the badger base at the moment of the update, needed only one more thing - the recipe, which has been given randomly to players for fighting badgers. To have the applicator crafted, one has to acquire the recipe or have somewolf else with the recipe to craft it. Acquiring the recipe demanded luck or savings. As an infinite amount of items can be crafted once the recipe is learnt, one could offer crafting services by asking for materials and giving the crafted item in return demanding whatever payment even extremely cheap or none - this option sounds very inviting for those looking to have their applicators crafted.

And there goes the promise based transaction: "give me materials first, I'll craft the item and send you back later." This can be avoided if the player crafting already has the crafted item so can just set up a trade offering the crafted item and asking for materials along with the payment. So one has to acquire the materials AND the recipe, craft the item and instead of using the applicator on a wolf, offer crafting services supported by the rules - in other words: not promise based.

However, when your objective is to be an owner of the first badger wolf assuming you already had all the materials required to craft the badger base applicator, you most likely had to rely on promised based transactions provided by crafting services as the cheapest way to get the app first. You have to make a deal with the first honest crafting player to meet the objective and you'll most likely have to trust the first player ever who can be anywolf you haven't met before.

The recipes can be given randomly to players fighting badgers with lead wolves at least level 10 - this can be you, this can be your friend, this can be somewolf who already has materials capable of offering crafting services without promise based transactions. But I believe this can mostly be a player struggling with food and amusement who will take the responsibility to accept materials from other players - assets that are worth much more than the crafting player's networth - convert the materials into the apps and gift the apps - the majority of what the crafting player has at the moment - back to senders. Do you believe the integrity of such transaction?

Regarding the first fox base applicators, I wouldn't say these were exempt from promise based transactions (ekhm... refunded breedings...) but at least those could be carried on between friends and associates. Recipes fit between expensive materials when offering generously for them but if anywolf relied on crafting services - by the time all the other required materials were obtained, there were a lot of players offering crafting services so the most trustworthy one could be chosen.

This is also a reason why next craftable base applicators shouldn't require common items that are stocked in hoards - that at the time of the update somewolf would have all of them and just had to rely on the first player offering crafting services to be the first owner of the base.

Thank you for reading to this point.

Dżanek
#24018

Posted 2022-05-16 10:09:07

#747510

I disagree, the badger base honestly made me keep playing. I knew it was coming and each month I was waiting for it.
Without that, I'd have stopped playing Wolvden months ago

MoscoMoon {Lethan} ❄️
#1120

Posted 2022-06-05 07:09:46 (edited)

#765712

For once I agree with Dzanek.
I myself voted for Caribou for this exact reason, Prehaps because I have a skin on my wall and there lovely animals but

But more so No pelts no skulls one of the key Ingredients to a crafted base, Besides Caribou antlers, Fur tufts and broken antlers would be the only "Deer" pieces a person could pick up In advanced.

Badger was neat, I guess but knowing what It was going to look like (American badger) for months In advanced didn't help much.
A Caribou on the other hand varies a LOT versus all the other animals on that list and would still be a pleasant surprise

SolarScottish
#26758

Posted 2022-07-09 10:49:29

#791186

After reading this post fully, I do have some thoughts. I do want to say I was here for the release of fox (and in the group that worked to get the first fox base), but was not here for the poll or the release of badger. Though badger is partly what brought me back to the game.

I think that's some bases should be easier than others. Fox was insanely hard because it required a new mob that no one had. Badger was very easy because the mob had been released since day one. I would like to see a mix of different bases with different levels to get. It is nice seeing an easier base after how difficult fox was.

That being said, I was not aware of the poll until now, and I am highly against something like that happening again. It gives players an advantage with time to stock up items, tangle up the market, spoil future excitement, and just kind of ruins the fun of the game. I agree that they definitely need to hide it better in the future. Maybe hide the results for such a poll, or like you said, be sneaky about what the base is actually for.

Slothie
#2938

Posted 2022-07-20 19:12:06 (edited)

#798723

ignore, misread

Quiet Voices
#1558

Posted 2022-07-20 19:34:54

#798740

They're not saying no more craftable bases, just that we shouldn't know what they are ahead of time. Because everyone knew badger won the poll, and people were able to cheaply buy badger supplies month ahead of time. Which was unfair to other members who had missed the poll.

Craftable bases = yes
Polls where its obvious its a craftable base = no

Slothie
#2938

Don't introduce predictable craftable bases

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