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Posted 2022-10-28 13:49:07 (edited) #865653 Then I would say that that's incredibly insensitive. Even if they did not mean to, by choosing a very common real life disability that people playing the game can have as the "mutation" that prevents our wolves from doing anything, they've implied that blind people and animals are functionally useless. They should have made up a fake mutation/disability if they wanted that in the game, and not done something that would make some of their disabled players feel like they don't matter. There's a very common misconception that if you're disabled you are child-like/a burden/cannot function independently, and I don't think the game should play into that stereotype by using blindness in the way you suggest. I really, REALLY hope that isn't the reason behind it.

VagueShapes #828

Posted 2022-10-28 13:58:21 (edited) #865657 If that's the case, you can suggest a better suiting mutation that would be just renamed into. I really like the concept of breeding a wolf that can't take any role and finding a way to make progress with the wolf. I wouldn't like this mechanic to be neglected.

Dżanek #24018

Posted 2022-10-28 20:10:41 #865960 I absolutely mean no offense, but that's not really my job. I don't even want a wolf that is excluded from all roles. Players can choose to not set a role on a wolf for it's entire lifetime if they want to, or just keep immortal wolves. Despite being disabled, I definitely can't speak for all disabled people and I'm not qualified to lead sensitivity training on such complex issues. If the developers confirm your theory then I'll contact them directly to discuss some of my concerns.

VagueShapes #828

Posted 2022-10-28 20:56:09 #865978 I still really do think that hunting for blind wolves should be either not an option at all or restricted to critter and small trails. Even with the argument of, "there is fantasy elements in this game," I still can't feasibly see a blind wolf being able to take down elk, deer, bison, etc. That's difficult and dangerous enough for wolves with all senses, the danger would be even higher if one of those wolves was lacking one of their senses. A kick to the head or an antler to the chest is definitely more than just a basic injury or open wound (also, if we are going by, "fantasy game element," arguments then hunting should not be more difficult in winter but I digress). I can definitely see blind wolves being herbalists and I was surprised to see that it wasn't an option for blind wolves, but it was for deaf wolves. Herbert is always there to guide your wolf no matter their proficiency, so he is pretty much already there to help and prevent any mistakes. My only guess on as to why blind wolves can't be herbalists is because of foraging, but I already kind of assumed Herbie watched over that too?

LittlePuppy #2787

Posted 2022-10-30 06:58:28 #866772 I'm assuming that the addition of blindness was to enrich immersion into the experience. And, if we're being honest, without being given an opportunity for them to contribute to pack life, their value will primarily be for display with or without lore, like how polymelia, brachies, etc are treated now, and breeding for more blind wolves. I don't lose sleep over the "ethics" of mutation breeding and selling, since these are pixel wolves and people can play the game however they wish, but it would be nice and I think rewarding to look into this because it might potentially open opportunities to develop the game. If the pair-bond helps blind wolves increase proficiency, there's another win for expanding the pair bond feature. The only game progress, like EXP and leveling, you can currently make from a blind wolf, from what I see, is to actually not work with it at all, but indirectly through their pups.

Feli #69778

Posted 2022-11-06 02:58:55 #873246 Full support.  It makes no sense to preclude blind wolves from taking any roles.  Same goes for congenital cataracts, even more so because this condition does not cause blindness from birth (spoken as someone with the condition) so there would be plenty of time for this wolf to learn a role as a sighted wolf and gradually adapt. If the game is supposed to be realistic in its limitations, I doubt it's realistic to imagine that a pack would provide indefinitely for a wolf that isn't allowed to give anything back (not even in the form of teaching or caring for pups, which is a common function of those who may be elderly or impaired in human and animal societies).  Perhaps this is supposed to appeal to the collectors who enjoy having wolves around as oddities even if those wolves can't do anything.  This is a pretty raw deal for a lore-based player, and I can only hope I never get one of these pups because it will be really depressing to see myself in a wolf that isn't allowed to do anything, and I'd probably have to let it starve to death due to its depression.

possumproblem #71217

Posted 2022-11-06 15:42:43 (edited) #873583 Support! I agree that a role such as lead or scout doesn't make sense for blind wolves (although from what I am reading while the wolf is still young, for some blindnesses, they could perform pretty normally.) But something which relies more on scent than on sight like tracking prey or sniffing out herbs is something that I would find a little more realistic than just automatically bumping the wolf into the pile with pretty wolves that do nothing [we have imortal wolves, although not cheap, they exist]. Pup training seems plausible as well, and although personally I think pupsitting should not be a very plausible role for someone who can't see (or maybe I'm cursed and my pups are just vicious little squirts while everyone else's seem to behave normally lol) the idea given for pupsitting and the wolf not being able to ever reach 100% proficiency makes sense. And these wolves should be allowed not just to train others, but to be trained as well and with other pups and adols [realistically speaking of course.] Perhapse the pups could gain a little less stat boost than other pups or less prof than other adols, but not letting them train at all is just.....no, just no. Pup training lessons like hidding, foraging, and howling especially are lessons that I cannot understand why these wolves would not be allowed. Pups are not meant to be perfect, and in fact at the end of the hidding lesson there's something that says the pup would have been good at hiding if it hadn't 'giggled' everytime that the mentor passed by the hiding place. Maybe a tail can stick out or a patch of fur can be visible in the sun, but I don't see why these pups can't train at all. That's a lot to read so I'm not posting more but this thread has a good chunk of ideas and information, and I hope that the developers consider tweaking this new mutation into something a little more real

𝔞 𝔯 𝔠 𝔷 𝔦 𝔩 𝔩 𝔞 #79033

Posted 2022-11-09 09:17:44 (edited) #875973 In what way is a roleless wolf an interesting mechanic? You can't raise its stats, it's basically a useless decoration lying in the background, which is um.. pretty goddamn ableist. It's not a real wolf, it's a sentient being living in a society that uses herbs and language. You can't say that it's just realism since Wolvden is already about a SOCIETY. It will make use of many disabled individuals. Hunting: I only support the stalker role - a blind wolf is technically born with a normal sense of smell (unless it has some good genes), but focusing on smelling and hearing things will make it better. Maybe a blind wolf could start with more proficiency in stalking than a normal wolf, that would be pretty neat and realistic! Herbalism: I also support it, it's a pretty easy role, especially since herbalists already work with bears. Pupsitting: this is a bit more complicated, because we don't know how pupsitting works. Do they just sit in the den and watch the cubs? Are they in a rather dangerous area? I leave that to the devs, but I still think a blind wolf should be able to do it with full proficiency. You can also just make some different roles suitable for blind wolves, but the ones we have can still be performed by blind wolves.

Uncreative #26188

Posted 2022-11-09 12:07:05 (edited) #876065 Support, for all the reasons already stated. I just had a pup born with Spontaneous Blindness, don't know why he should be relegated to merely taking up space in the den. If he remains barred from formal roles, he'll become a Sentry safeguarding his pack using all of his other senses. It will not go well for any predator that underestimates him.

Celtic Ravens #31620

Posted 2022-11-10 12:12:26 #876747 Same! I have a wolf that was born blind. I would love to make them a future healer or puppysitter. She'll just sit in the den and do nothing for the rest of her life.

DemonLouie #16192

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