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please don’t integrate karma! (addendum: at least not how exists in LD)

please don’t integrate karma! (addendum: at least not how exists in LD)
Posted 2021-01-24 10:33:30 (edited)

on one of the last news posts, there was mention of integrating a karma system reminiscent of that on Lioden. i feel as though this mechanic adds unnecessary stress to the game, especially on Wolvden, since it is more difficult, generally speaking, compared to LD. i disliked feeling compelled to make good-karma choices and constantly needing to check that i'm making the right choice, and choosing actions based on karma rather than what i want to receive from encounters. 

i know that this is a matter of opinion, but for what it's worth, the folks in the WD server i'm in tend to agree! 

thank you so much for all your hard work, team!!! 

edit: as many users have suggested in this thread, a version of a karma system that utilizes pack interactions (as an example) rather than explore encounters with unbalanced choices (i.e. bad karma for a lucky food, good karma for a rat carcass), which could leave you making karma-driven decisions that give you otherwise disadvantageous outcomes, is actually an awesome idea! i'm in full support of something like that! 👍👍

TL,DR: karma would be a lot of fun, so long as it's well-balanced and non-punishing



related thread: https://www.wolvden.com/chatter/topic/858329

Arcadia /hiatus
#1119

Posted 2021-01-24 12:06:08 (edited)

No support. I like the addition of the karma system. If you're more concerned with the outcome of the encounters rather than the increase or decrease in karma there is nothing stopping you from picking the choice for the outcome you want.

I've always liked when games make your choices have consequences. Even if it's just reputation. It makes sense to me to be judge on your actions. It feels silly to play a morally good character but have them do terrible things in explore. Personally, it would ruin my immersion into the "world."


QueenOfFrowns
#3910

Posted 2021-01-24 12:19:12
No support. I find the karma system fun, and honestly I naturally pick good karma options even without the system. It would be nice to get a fun title or decor for my decisions.

greahound⚡
#27654

Posted 2021-01-24 14:53:35

Support!
I didn't play Lioden long, but the karma system had a lot of influence on the interactions I chose, and like you said, Wolvden is a harder game and doesn't really need the addition. 
I don't need the title of "This guy is an absolute jerk" because I chose to get myself a lucky foot rather than a rat from an interaction. I'd prefer it not to be added (even if it's already on course to be added anyways, just want to make my opinion known with you op :) ).


Redacted
#18978

Posted 2021-01-24 15:00:05 (edited)
Maybe instead of advocating for karma to be omitted completely, you could advocate for the titles to be optional? There could be generic titles like "taiga dweller" and "leader", alongside event titles, that can be opted for ^^

AlphaAlpha
#33253

Posted 2021-01-24 15:06:51

Additional idea (courtesy of a friend):

Rather than have karma attached to decisions in explore, where the decisions will dictate what items you get for being "good" or "evil" I propose that after every rollover, you're presented with another screen with a moral choice on it. You're supposed to lead your pack, so it asks you a question based on leadership. 
Example: "Winter is coming. Do you: A. Launch an attack on a neighboring packs land to expand your hunting grounds or B. Keep within your land but try to stock up on herbs. 

Doing it like that will allow people to collect titles if that's what they're into, while not making people miss out on potentially better items while exploring due to a morality scale. 


Redacted
#18978

Posted 2021-01-24 15:08:51

A decision like that at rollover seems to imply that you get an extra territory slot or a haul of herbs though, which is arguably a much harder choice than a lucky foot vs a rat. I suggest that titles/karma can just be toggled off if people don't want to participate.


greahound⚡
#27654

Posted 2021-01-24 17:00:26

I support. I'm not a big fan of karma systems. I want to be chaotic neutral and don't really want some system telling me I lean one way or another :/

I think a compromise could be where some unique encounters are more specifically geared towards karma, while others either don't change it or hardly influence it at all unless you pick it an obscene amount of times.

An example is the spring time raccoon encounter in explore. 

Your options are to eat the kits, or rummage the stores.

Both options restore 10% hunger.

Since the result of both options is the same aside from how the encounter ends, you could say it can be affected by karma.

While other ones that often have more favorable results (the owl you can taunt for 3 feathers) may be influenced less or more neutral.


otterbells
#4284

Posted 2021-01-24 17:03:20

I agree with Jessi. When the encounter gives the same result, that would be a good way for people to remain as the alignment they want without fearing missing out on a good item just to choose the moral choice.


greahound⚡
#27654

Posted 2021-01-24 17:07:52

I support, in the sense that I don't think Lioden's karma system should be ported as-is to Wolvden. I do find the feature constricting, RP-wise.  It's really hard to stay in the middle, which is where I tend to consider my leaders. However, I do like the idea of karma - I wouldn't want to turn it off!  

Personally, I would prefer the system stay out of explore. Make it part of the expanded personality / interactions system. Ie, if you are nice to your wolves, you have good karma. If you are mean, bad karma. 


Keycatt
#1226

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