Deaf Wolves Should Have Any Role
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Posted 2023-10-25 11:29:13
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 railwayspine 🌾💫🦌 #28166 |
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Posted 2023-12-23 06:29:21
I still think no pupsitting or hunting but I always picture my herbalist being blind or having special powers so being deaf or blind would be a nice option. I think they should also be allowed to be the alchimist or whatever the new role for that ends up being called |
The Arctica Pack #2399 |
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Posted 2024-06-09 04:11:56
In addition, I think this could be a fantastic opportunity to make the mechanic more interesting and engaging for the player, AND get more into the weeds of realism to give it that extra crunch. First of all: right now, blindness and deafness are generic (technically blindness is cataracts because of the eyes), but you could change that to make two or three different types - there could be macular degeneration where the wolf takes penalties as it gets older; light blindness where the wolf takes penalties when acting during the day; there could be cataracts; glaucoma; brain damage. You could pick and choose just two or three variants with the most interesting and/or simple to code ramifications and use them to add a bit of variety that adds to the realistic feel. Related to that, I actually think it would be extremely cool (and set Wolvden aside in a very special way) if instead of having blind/deafness as simple yes/no boxes, instead they could be percentage gradients. Wolves could have anything from a 10-100% visual impairment, or 10-100% hearing impairment, with an associated gradient of severity. This would be far more true to life than the stereotypical understanding of how deaf/blindness works; and not only that, I personally think it's a little more characterful. After all, if you have a wolf who's got a 10% vision impairment, it probably doesn't make much difference mechanically, but it likely does change the way you think about them. A way to combine the above two might be: - Hearing/vision loss operates on a gradient much like marking opacity, with associated penalties to certain actions that increase in severity the higher the percentage - There are two types of hearing/vision loss: degenerative and non-degenerative (optionally you could add a third one, temporary, as a form of injury or disease) - If your wolf has a non-degenerative impairment, that percentage remains consistent - If your wolf has a degenerative impairment, then there is a chance for that percentage to increase in severity with every rollover - (If using the temporary option, then there is a chance for that percentage to decrease with every rollover until the impairment is gone) Finally, it would be cool if your wolf could be both blind and deaf, as the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. This might already be a thing, and if it isn't then it might be a fairly tricky thing to code, but if it were doable then it would be a really neat little change! (And as a second 'finally', I would be really grateful if the problem wasn't fixed by relegating blind wolves SPECIFICALLY to Herbalist roles. While that's probably one of the things they can do pretty reasonably, there's a stereotype of disabled people being relegated to medical/mystical roles in a group dynamic, which sucks a bit!) |
Kit #140915 |
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Posted 2024-06-09 19:35:41 (edited)
Yes, disabilities in general can make life a struggle. I am disabled myself (autistic + ambulatory cane user). However, why can't deaf and blind wolves fill most roles? I see no reason why a disabled wolf couldn't lead a pack, scout, pupsit, mentor others, and make medicines. The only one I can see being a major struggle is hunting, but even then... That's what the whole hunting party is for, right? Working together! I will not speak over the deaf/hoh and blind/vision impaired people that have written comments in this thread, and their opinions should be listened to first and foremost. As HollowWorld7 (#13716) said, "there are few depictions of disabilities that bother [her] more than them not being disabling." That being said, blind wolves being unable to perform *any* roles whatsoever seems exceptionally ableist. (However, this thread is about deaf wolves and not blind wolves, so I digress.) Here is my proposed solution: deaf and blind wolves can perform any role, BUT each wolf gets randomly generated one to three roles that they *personally* cannot take on. For example, your new puppy is born deaf, and their stats page reads that because of this they cannot hunt. Their sibling, a puppy also born deaf, cannot scout. Another example, a wolf spontaneously becomes blind, and they can no longer pupsit nor scout. Maybe a blind wolf cannot scout, become an herbalist, or mentor. It is RNG/random, and it represents how real life people with disabilities have different skills and levels of ability. (Let me know what y'all think of this one! /gen) Many other users have also proposed the idea of there being circumstantial withdrawals/penalties. Although that would be difficult and/or time-consuming to integrate, it would be much better than "blind wolves can't do anything." EDIT: Removed a paragraph I had written because I thought about it and realized that wasn't a point I wanted to emphasize. |
Jotfiikqeth #18541 |
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Posted 2024-07-29 04:42:23 (edited)
I heavily, heavily, HEAVILY support this suggestion from a few years ago, and sincerely hope for a change. EDIT: I especially like Jotfiikqeth's suggestion, above. I already get excited when it comes to disabled characters- that'd make them each unique and memorable in their own way, add more story elements, and so on! I also want to point out: being blind is not the same as being 100% unable to see. For some, it is- personally, I can parse enough from the colours of my surroundings (despite colourblindness too), from sound, from touch, to tell what I'm around and don't use a screen reader. If I did not have glasses, I could not see what I am writing, as two inches from my eyes is too far away. I can never drive, I can never have my vision truly fixed due to the nature of my disability. That said, I could- and HAVE- babysat just fine, including without glasses. "Realism" this, "realism" that- have the people preaching that ever actually met a disabled person? Not to mention, accidents happen that result in temporary or permanent disabilities. If you are trying to preach about realism, mayhaps don't speak for and over the communities with the condition. Hell, I would be willing to code this. (This all is also here, as blind wolf redone threads seem to redirect to this one, to be clear) |
thelongquiet #104570 |
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Posted 2024-08-02 03:08:42
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 Minnie Cat #136134 |
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Posted 21 hours ago
Yes, dogs are not wolves anymore, but the wolves in this game are, to be perfectly honest, closer to dogs than they are actual real life wolves. There are thousands upon thousands of stories about blind dogs who operate just as well and better than their seeing companions. Dogs who have had eyes removed learning to adapt to blind life within days where it takes us humans months and years. There's a whole THING about breeding certain coats that lead us to basically a sub-breed that is deaf, and these dogs, again, handle life just as well as their hearing peers. This is because canines senses are reversed from ours. Our main three, in order of how much of the brain/nervous system is dedicated to it: Eyes, ears, nose. Canines, on the other hand, are: Nose, ears, eyes. For humans, sight is the hardest loss to adapt to, because we are visual-based animals. That said, you need only look around you to see it isn't impossible. For dogs, losing their smell would be detrimental, as they are olfactory-based animals, and a lot more information about our world can be perceived through scent than vision. I'd argue it would be even harder for them to navigate the world without smell than it would be for us without sight. However, there's plenty of coyotes who have suffered horrendous accidents where a good third of their nose and upper jaw are missing. Dogs who have survived being hit by cars or attacks by other animals that cause total or partial loss of their nose - they learn, with time, how to adapt. that is, after all, one of mammals best survival traits. We all adapt insanely well to disabilities that would usually cause the death of another kind of animal. All of this to say that, yeah, deaf wolves could do damn near anything a hearing wolf could do. And the things they would realistically struggle with, OP already stated the nerfs they could have. though as a note, deafness would not impact hunting all that significantly as some commenters think it would. When stalking, both animals and people alike are taking far more cues from touch underfoot than hearing. Go watch some videos of big cats stalking and you will see the minor adjustments they make to footing before placing it down. Wolves do this too. So do dogs. So did our barefoot hominid ancestors. and so does any modern person doing an activity that requires stealth - barefoot or socks, because you MUST be able to feel potentially noise-making surfaces. You don't need to have hearing to know a twig snapped under your foot, or that you stepped on something crunchy, or that you bumped a rock on a hard surface and made it clatter. Most things that will make big noises have tactile feedback, and a deaf animals sense of touch is going to be far more heightened (along with the rest of the senses) to compensate. What it would hinder them most is the wolf's ability to hear something dangerous coming its way - like an angry bull elk charging from behind, or a boar ambushing from the brush, or the clever jaguar stalking it amongst the trees, or the protective mama bear that's closer than it realizes, ect. They would be more prone to injury from outside sources that are faster than what their other senses can process. and there are tons upon tons of outside forces involved in every hunt, so a deaf hunter being more prone to injury make sense. But their accuracy would be on par with or sometimes better than the rest of the team. Also agree with the nerfing of pupsitter protection. While they'd definitely be more alert, babies of all species are crafty little suckers and *will* find ways to get into trouble - quickly and quietly. They wouldn't hear the rattlesnake's rattle, for example, and it might look as if the pup is just playing with a stick or rock or anything else it normally plays with - until its too late. Mentoring shouldn't really be impaired either - even the howling lessons. don't know if any of you have ever met a deaf husky before, but they still howl. Again, big noises have tactile feedback - doubly so when that big noise is coming from your own head. Sure, they might not be the best howler in the pack - but to say a wolf couldn't howl because they're deaf is like saying a deaf person can't verbally speak. It will be different, that's all. All the mutations that are technically disabilities that real life animals live with and adapt to every single day ought to be treated as such. Even removing the humanizing representation it offers, it frankly just makes no sense to make these individuals rather useless in function. Just give them penalties and nerfs where applicable. |
❀Moki❀ #15263 |